---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Hi Andre, I think the problem here is confusing tuning softly as opposed to giving a test blow to make sure it stays. Right? Avery At 12:36 PM 10/26/04, you wrote: >Just a few things here : >First of all, I tried to tell here that when we strike a note very hard,=20 >the emphasis lies on the higher partials. I have tried this out on my ETD= =20 >partial analysis, and indeed it shows that the higher partials are more=20 >present with this hard blow. >This causes us to listen to strings in a different way and the result we=20 >may find in the unisons : hitting the strings with a not so hard blow will= =20 >result in a more coarse, more rich sound. >Hitting the strings very hard will result in a unison which sounds thin,=20 >rather short in length and unsatisfactory. >Basically we can hear a real difference if we hit VERY hard, like what=20 >concert tuners do daily, or just less hard but still in a firm manner. >The last one requires a very good tuning technique and it definitely=20 >requires from the tuner to put his hammer ALWAYS into the direction of the= =20 >tail in the very first place. > >second : we should not confuse hard or soft blows with the way we listen=20 >to, and perceive, piano sounds. >A hard or softer blow literally defines - more or less - the presence of=20 >higher or lower overtones. >The way we perceive piano sounds, and the way we choose to enrich and=20 >power our unisons defines the difference between piano tuners in general. >The example I gave here of a technician working on a beautiful concert=20 >grand, who made ugly (to my ears!) unisons, shows that indeed your unison= =20 >is not necessarily my unison. > >After my initial ear opening experience, I often experimented with=20 >colleagues on the very same instrument, just to find out whether their=20 >'tone' was different from mine, and indeed, the unisons I re-tuned sounded= =20 >completely different. > >Lastly : to those who tried out the hard versus soft blow but had no=20 >result, I say this : >The best 'place' on a piano to try this out, is in the first treble=20 >section, just next (on right of) to the wound bass strings. >This section is usually very sonorous and rich sounding. >Just take one unison and re-rune it, but this time with tremendous blows,= =20 >as if your life depends on it, just like the professional life of a=20 >concert tuner who depends on his rock steady unisons ok? If you do this,=20 >you will clearly hear a difference between this one unison and the=20 >adjacent unisons. > >It is my personal experience, that tuning technique is far more important= =20 >than being able to make the most refined temperament. >It is for that reason only that in one of the very best Piano Academies=20 >(Hamamatsu) in the world, the young students learn to master tuning=20 >technique first by doing pitch raise and pitch lowering ALL DAY long for=20 >three Months (wow), and with the aid of a tuning machine. The result of=20 >EVERY tuning is scribbled on a chalk board in the central hall, for=20 >everybody to see, openly or sneakily. Showing their bad marks drives the=20 >students to the edge of their abilities, and this usually results in=20 >already having quite a decent tuning technique after those three Months. >The next course is learning about temperament, but this time without=20 >machines, and after one year, they are often just as good (or much better= =20 >even) than a tuner from our hemisphere who has already worked quite a=20 >number of years. >That's one of the main reasons, why I, after having fought with piano's=20 >for the better part of my professional life, put the emphasis on=20 >technique, and please with the aid of one of the best ETD's. I can=20 >concentrate fully on technique, and on making 'tone'. >BTW.... If someone here prefers to not use an ETD, than I have no=20 >objections to that at all. How could I? and why should I? It is=20 >everybody's personal choice, and I truly understand the love and=20 >dedication of making a very beautiful aural tuning. >I have had more than my share, that's why I choose for what I chose. > >Andr=E9 Oorebeek > > > > > > > > >On 26-okt-04, at 18:26, jason kanter wrote: > >>One of the very first basics we learn is that we must set the pin with a= =20 >>firm blow to equalize the string tension across the friction points. How= =20 >>does this relate to the current discussion of using rather soft blows to= =20 >>tune unisons? I *imagine* that you tune with soft blows, then settle the= =20 >>pin with a hard blow, then listen again with soft blow to ensure the=20 >>tuning has not moved? But the hard blow has likely changed the tuning, so= =20 >>... do you use soft blows while raising the pitch, then lowering it to a= =20 >>smidgeon sharp, then apply a firm blow to settle the string into exactly= =20 >>the right spot? If we avoid hard blows entirely, surely the piano will be= =20 >>immediately put out of tune by the pianist? >> >>Puzzled in Seattle >>| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |=20 >>| | | | | | >>Jason Kanter . piano tuning regulation repair >>jkanter@rollingball.com . cell 425 830 1561 >>serving the eastside and the san juans >>-----Original Message----- >>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org=20 >>[<mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org>mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On=20 >>Behalf Of Quentin Codevelle >>Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:32 PM >>To: pianotech >>Subject: How we hear to Jeneetah >> >>Hi, >> >>Maybe you should keep on making soft blows, but try to hit the key=20 >>quickly, without listening to the note during 15 sec like you said. >>That way you'll be able to hear the "attack" of the note, the first stage= =20 >>of the sound that is produced. >>Having a clear and pure sounding attack is very important for me, and=20 >>I've never succeeded in having a clear attack when tuning with listening= =20 >>to the note more than 2 or 3 seconds. >> >>For me, when I tune, when my attack is clear, the rest is also, and my=20 >>unisson has enough "length" most of times. >>I need much concentration right now to make clean unissons on every note= =20 >>with this technique, that means it takes some time to have a good eveness. >>But since the beginning, you should hear a difference, YOUR sound will be= =20 >>turning from black to white. >> >>Andre? >> >>Quentin. >friendly greetings >from >Andr=E9 Oorebeek > >"where Music is, no harm can be" > ></blockquote></x-html> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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