---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Just a few things here : First of all, I tried to tell here that when we strike a note very=20 hard, the emphasis lies on the higher partials. I have tried this out=20 on my ETD partial analysis, and indeed it shows that the higher=20 partials are more present with this hard blow. This causes us to listen to strings in a different way and the result=20 we may find in the unisons : hitting the strings with a not so hard=20 blow will result in a more coarse, more rich sound. Hitting the strings very hard will result in a unison which sounds=20 thin, rather short in length and unsatisfactory. Basically we can hear a real difference if we hit VERY hard, like what=20= concert tuners do daily, or just less hard but still in a firm manner. The last one requires a very good tuning technique and it definitely=20 requires from the tuner to put his hammer ALWAYS into the direction of=20= the tail in the very first place. second : we should not confuse hard or soft blows with the way we=20 listen to, and perceive, piano sounds. A hard or softer blow literally defines - more or less - the presence=20 of higher or lower overtones. The way we perceive piano sounds, and the way we choose to enrich and=20 power our unisons defines the difference between piano tuners in=20 general. The example I gave here of a technician working on a beautiful concert=20= grand, who made ugly (to my ears!) unisons, shows that indeed your=20 unison is not necessarily my unison. After my initial ear opening experience, I often experimented with=20 colleagues on the very same instrument, just to find out whether their=20= 'tone' was different from mine, and indeed, the unisons I re-tuned=20 sounded completely different. Lastly : to those who tried out the hard versus soft blow but had no=20 result, I say this : The best 'place' on a piano to try this out, is in the first treble=20 section, just next (on right of) to the wound bass strings. This section is usually very sonorous and rich sounding. Just take one unison and re-rune it, but this time with tremendous=20 blows, as if your life depends on it, just like the professional life=20 of a concert tuner who depends on his rock steady unisons ok? If you do=20= this, you will clearly hear a difference between this one unison and=20 the adjacent unisons. It is my personal experience, that tuning technique is far more=20 important than being able to make the most refined temperament. It is for that reason only that in one of the very best Piano Academies=20= (Hamamatsu) in the world, the young students learn to master tuning=20 technique first by doing pitch raise and pitch lowering ALL DAY long=20 for three Months (wow), and with the aid of a tuning machine. The=20 result of EVERY tuning is scribbled on a chalk board in the central=20 hall, for everybody to see, openly or sneakily. Showing their bad marks=20= drives the students to the edge of their abilities, and this usually=20 results in already having quite a decent tuning technique after those=20 three Months. The next course is learning about temperament, but this time without=20 machines, and after one year, they are often just as good (or much=20 better even) than a tuner from our hemisphere who has already worked=20 quite a number of years. That's one of the main reasons, why I, after having fought with piano's=20= for the better part of my professional life, put the emphasis on=20 technique, and please with the aid of one of the best ETD's. I can=20 concentrate fully on technique, and on making 'tone'. BTW.... If someone here prefers to not use an ETD, than I have no=20 objections to that at all. How could I? and why should I? It is=20 everybody's personal choice, and I truly understand the love and=20 dedication of making a very beautiful aural tuning. I have had more than my share, that's why I choose for what I chose. Andr=E9 Oorebeek On 26-okt-04, at 18:26, jason kanter wrote: > One of the very first basics we learn is that we must set the pin with=20= > a firm blow to equalize the string tension across the friction points.=20= > How does this relate to the current discussion of using rather soft=20 > blows to tune unisons? I *imagine* that you tune with soft blows, then=20= > settle the pin with a hard blow, then listen again with soft blow to=20= > ensure the tuning has not moved? But the hard blow has likely changed=20= > the tuning, so ... do you use soft blows while raising the pitch, then=20= > lowering it to a smidgeon sharp, then apply a firm blow to settle the=20= > string into exactly the right spot? If we avoid hard blows entirely,=20= > surely the piano will be immediately put out of tune by the pianist? > =A0 > Puzzled in Seattle > | |=A0=A0 | | |=A0=A0 | |=A0=A0 | | |=A0=A0 | |=A0=A0 | | |=A0=A0 | = |=A0=A0 | | |=A0=A0 | |=A0=A0 | | |=A0=A0=20 > | |=A0=A0 | | |=A0=A0 | |=A0=A0 > Jason Kanter . piano tuning regulation repair > jkanter@rollingball.com . cell 425 830 1561 > serving=A0the eastside=A0and the san juans > -----Original Message----- > From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On=20= > Behalf Of Quentin Codevelle > Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:32 PM > To: pianotech > Subject: How we hear to Jeneetah > > Hi, > =A0 > Maybe you should keep on making soft blows, but try to hit the key=20 > quickly, without listening to the note during 15 sec like you said. > That way you'll be able to hear the "attack" of the note, the first=20 > stage of the sound that is produced. > Having a clear and pure sounding attack is very important for me, and=20= > I've never succeeded in having a clear attack when tuning with=20 > listening to the note more than 2 or 3 seconds. > =A0 > For me, when I tune, when my attack is clear, the rest is also, and my=20= > unisson has enough "length" most of times. > I need much concentration right now to make clean unissons on every=20 > note with this technique, that means it takes some time to have a good=20= > eveness. > But since the beginning, you should hear=A0a difference, YOUR sound = will=20 > be turning from black to white. > =A0 > Andre? > =A0 > Quentin. > friendly greetings from Andr=E9 Oorebeek "where Music is, no harm can be" ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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