Erwinspiano@aol.com wrote: > *>>> You know what the real problem is here Ric .I'm attempting to > explain & derive meaning from the words Bernard stated from the point > of a hammer that is starting out to soft or loosing to much to > "internal friction"(his words) which does mean its spring rate is > tooo low. This is what he's refering to. Or perhaps that it doesn't > have enough.Perhaps you could enlighten us.* You know Dale... I'm going to let you hash this part out with Bernard, as they are his words. To begin with, I really didnt want to get into the discussion of which method is better then the other in the first place... I just wanted to bounce back and forth whether or not too many young voicers were reaching for the bottle to quickly, without being aware of what kind of hammers were being addressed..... without mastering to (some degree of proficiency) the needling technique.... and if this is the case, why.... and what can we do about it. > * Whatever. The hammer is spending too much time on the string > right?. Low rebound rate. I get it how bout you?* Again... You hash out Bernards words with Bernard. But read his sentence again tho..... he says "The rebound time is in correlation with the felts /inner friction losses/ (or imaginary part of elastic modulus) , not to /stiffness/. A high quality felt has a low rebound time." You tell ME if he means a "low rebound time" is synomnymous with the hammer spending too much time on the string. > * I also get that in your mind you don't ever use lacquer on anything > & your always thinking from the point of a denser pressed hammer or > tensioned as you say & yes i think your use of the word is in my > opinion incorrect & mis-leading. I've explained that & you don't get it.* I spent many years trying out all kinds of different voicing approaches. You forget I am American and spent the first 15 years of my carreer over there. If you want to know the truth of the matter it is just these past 3-4 years I decided to master (and I mean really master) the technique of voicing by needling for concert classical level work. My experience with this has led me to clearly define my personal preferences both from a standpoint of what I was able to accomplish myself with other techniques and from what I heard from very accomplished voicers on both sides. So..yes... at this point I have rejected the lacquered approach. But again.. that is personal preference and I am not really interested in argueing that bit... nor getting into a hopeless arguement about which method is inherently better then the other. As for my use of words.... I dont know what to say.. but when a person clearly qualifies a words operating domain, and then proceeds to use it in a gramatically, descriptively correct manner within the stated qualifications... then one has done what one can do in attempting to communicate clearly ones thinking. So... like it or not... lacquering a hammer does indeed ruin its ability to be needled up later. That does not needfully mean that the entire hammer is totally wrecked beyond any musical use any and all purposes... actually it doesnt mean anything more then exactly what it states.... but then it doesnt mean anything less then that either. Where you wish to take that further... is out of my hands :) As for the rest of it... I just ended up deleting this... I'm not into argueing which kind of voicing is better then the other... nor into trying to get into a back and forth about who misunderstood who... who misinterpreted who... whoes not interested in learning what. Heck I just wanted to talk about why seemingly so few people seem to be capable of dealing with needling techniques, and evidently just reaching for the bottle of juice without really knowing when to and how to use that either. This whole thing started off I may remind you, with somebody writting in a post asking what to do with a set of hammers that had been drenched with lacquer to the point of rock hard.... with a few interesting experiences and related questions following... eventually a question which prompted Andre to ask if anyone had heard of "needling up". Cheers RicB
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