Out of tune(probably an argument, here)

[A440A@aol.com]

Vinny writes: 
<< << Hi Ed, I can understand where you are coming from, and it is good to be
able to be as tollerant as you are of out-of-tuness.  >>
 
And jumpin' Jim responds: 
 >>Let me jump in here with a comment. For all pratical purposes a slightly 
un-unisoned unison :) is not quite the same thing as being "out-of-tune" your 
sensibilities notwithstanding.
 For the most part when I am talking about warping a string of a unison it 
would be unnoticable unless one were specifically looking for it...say one 
beat, 
or almost one beat, per 2 or 3 seconds.......hardly enough to be "out of 
tune" but not really "tuned" dead on either. >>

      Okkkaayy!  We got a number on it, now.  What I was referring to in my 
original post was the sound of unisons that were possibly out by 2-4 cents 
each.  There is a wide range of sounds available with this limit, ie, you can have 
a trichord with one string 2 cents flat, one dead on, and one two cents sharp 
and get a particular sound.  It will be different if you have only one string 
that is 2 cents flat and another that is only 1 cent sharp, with the third 
string unmoved, etc.   The cumulative phase relationships that these 
arrangements produce vary widely.  I don't think there is any way to consistantly produce 
a given effect without a machine to guide you, and even then, it is hard to 
replicate that "natural" out of tune sound.   
   There is also the context that the unisons are in.  I tune a piano once 
and placed every right hand string, from middle C up, exactly two cents sharp.  
The player thought it sounded very "rich" but didn't say anything was out of 
tune.  I have had a unison out by 2 cents on a piano where everything else was 
as close as possible and it stuck out like a poorly voiced note!  It is 
amazing how much latitude there is in perception.  
   Gabriel Weinreich, in "Five Lectures"  analyzes the small variable effects 
that tuners use in rendering consistant unisons, and that is another 
explanation that supports Jim's point.  By shifting the phase, ever so slightly, we 
can create more sustain in the unison.  It can even be heard as additional 
brilliance or power in the killer octave.  It just has to be consistant to be 
effective. 
   Absolute, clinical, "by the numbers" unisons will not all sound the same 
on a piano, that is why I have so often suggested that the best unisons are 
tuned aurally.  Sometimes, in the presence of false beats, the machine will help 
define what is going on, but still, cancelling them out by deliberately 
detuning the unison will be best done by ear.  
Regards, 



Ed Foote RPT 
http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html