Lacquer fight! Lacquer fight!

[Richard Brekne]

Erwinspiano@aol.com wrote:

>  
>
>
>
>     Again... no one said anything about NY Steinway being on a wrong
>     path...
>     nor did anyone out of hand condemn lacquering or anything of the
>     sort. 
>     I DID raise the question whether reaching for the bottle of juice had
>     become a little too easy for many technicians....irregardless of
>     where
>     they live.  Lacquer DOES ruin a hammer from the perspective of any
>     future needling-up. But of course it does not <<ruin>> a hammer from
>     some other perspective. 
>
>   >>*Yeah but Ric* if lacquer ruins a hammer then it does sound like 
> condemnation. A lacquered hammer done properly so it so the tone opens 
> up with playing time is a different way of getting the tone up.


Read again Dale.  I pointed out that from the very specific perspective 
of being able to needle up a hammer... lacquer ruins a hammer. This is 
true, and its undeniable.  That says nothing about how to get from one 
place to another in some different fashion... much less draw any value 
judjements.

>      Juice in the right place can increase power; in the wrong place can
>     > actually reduce it. Same with needles.
>
>     I dont think Juice in the right place can increase power... only more
>     tension can do that... at least as I understand the word power. 
>     Juice
>     can increase volume... loudness if you will. 
>
> >> Care to help me understand this? Really it SOunds like semantics to 
> me. Have you ever tried this technique successfully ?
>  I've done ti both ways. Power is power: defined it means volumne or 
> sound pressure with a changing balance of partials & different levels.

I've heard lots and lots of voicing classes through the years...and 
tried just about any trick in the book  I dont find that you can 
increase power by useing lacquer.... you can increase volume... 
loudness.  But thats a different matter.


>     Juice raises the stiffness of a hammer (somewhat selectively,
>     > depending upon where it is applied), but does not need to reduce
>     its
>     > resilience, if it is used to stiffen fibers rather than glue them
>     > together.
>
>     I dont really see how adding any significant amount of any type of
>     hardner can avoid reducing a hammer resilience. The nature of how
>     felt
>     is made to begin with rather dictates this. If you coat a fiber with
>     hardner, you dont just make it stiffer in one direction... you
>     make it
>     stiffer in all directions... longitudinally as well.  Not to
>     mention how
>     the felting itself is affected. 
>
> >>> This is the conceptual point I seem to have trouble communicating. 
> If  a softer hammer has to much resilience I need to decrease it so I 
> add a stiffening solution.  What I need is limited resilience. So do you.
>    You also have limited resilience With the harder pressed 
> hammers because they are made with more heat & pressure actually 
> reduces resilience as well only one hammer produce darker sounds 
> initially & the other brighter & sometimes choked sounds. The harder 
> version usually have less initial springiness than the former.


We dont use heat pressed hammers... but they do require needling. 

>    These extremes of heat & pressure also work against the way felt is 
> made. The springy wool is now made unspringy or less resilience.

I'll defer to David Stanwood and Andre on how hammer felt is made... but 
the pressure bit is kind of a hand in hand thing with the felting process.

>    I see stiffness as stiffness. If I have the same stiffness or 
> springiness with a moderately lacquered hammers as I do with a 
> moderately hard pressed hammer. I will have a similar tone but not exact.
>  I want to save that one for the next post. It's Friday after all  
> Regards.

And I have come to think that stiffness is not just stiffness... that 
there are other factors involved then what a steril simplified physics 
concept can account for... which I suppose accounts for that little 
difference we all seem willing to admit.

>   DalePs
>  I want to talk tension next


Dont get me wrong in all this folks... I'm not like <<down>> on the 
whole lacquer tradtion here... tho I do obviously personally prefer the 
tensioned hammer.  I /am/ concerned about misuse of chemicals of 
course... which is why I brought all this up... but that applies to 
mis-use of needles as well when it comes down to it.

>  
>
>     Erwins Pianos Restorations
>     4721 Parker Rd.
>     Modesto, Ca 95357
>     209-577-8397
>     Rebuilt Steinway , Mason &Hamlin Sales
>     www.Erwinspiano.com
>