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Hello, Roger, and all,
I believe you can attain , or anyway tend to, the wanted aftertouch since
the first pass (seeing it as a sensation, plus visual check) . What happens
is that it is not stable enough, as other regulations always, so a second
pass is necessary, (and a third, a fourth ...) after some time or
immediately, depending of the job.
And indeed the following passes allow for more refinement and give a clearer
lecture of the instrument, I will say also that a very much refined voicing
can't be done unless the regulation is at the most, so the power delivered
by the action is very even.
A regulation pass including the letoff, the lever position, the springs, the
drop, the backchecks, the hammer stroke is possible in less than 2 hours
apparently (I've done 2 yesterday, plus numerous tunings and voicing. So it
is just a matter of knowing what we are doing and "follow the rules" at the
moment where we do it.
We have many elements that tell us where the aftertouch is, so it is not
that difficult to focus on it.
I refer primarily to tone (among others) , and I generally notice the note
that have a little less aftertouch, and then I see the hammer that is
slightly lower (visual impaired tuners may well do the same), or the dip a
little more (or the roller misplaced, etc...).
I would not not name really tight the specifications Andre gives, but they
look to me like tendencies (the 0.4 mm landing being the nicest) Sometime
they are due to other elements than your regulation as well like the front
punching, the checking, so it may be useful to learn to recognize them so
we know what we are doing before hand.
And yes why not refuse to regulate a piano with second grade or old front
punching , when you have used your shoes, you change them is not it ? when
it comes to the price of first class punching they are not that expensive
(around 10$) . The same refuse to work on worn hammers (I understand why,
really , thanks Andre, even, if a fast shaping is 10 min work can help, you
get NOTHING of old hammers, nor a big desequilibrium in tone and touch '(and
too much work to get it acceptable).
I order around 12 sets of Yamaha green punching each 2 months or so, I
understand Andre obtained Wurzen front punching with a better give, a little
like the Steinway ones, and I am impatient to try them. The price of a set
is not high, and when used to the 2 fingers method insertion from Yamaha,
(or the brucel pliers for the ones that have too thick fingers) , changing
the punching is 10-15 min work.
At the same moment, it is a good opportunity to level the cardboard punching
quantity, and get rid of the numerous thin punching that can have been
added.
I am anal for the paper punching quality, and I use only Yamaha ones, they
are not that cheap, but more fast to install and they are stable in time.
I am yet to find a better solution, but I'll avoid at any price second
choice front paper punching(and balance of course)
A few years ago no one was taking care of the front punching, then now it is
the most used trick around good professionals to ameliorate a piano in a
pinch. It generally brings large smile to the face of the pianists.
Best Regards
Isaac OLEG
-----Message d'origine-----
De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la part
de Roger Jolly
Envoyé : mardi 30 mars 2004 06:12
À : Pianotech
Objet : Re: something about after touch and movement of the jack.
Hi Andre,
We play from the same page and have the same philosophy
toward regulation. Wonder if the YTA had any thing to do with it?
The tight specs you refer to, cannot be attained in a one pass regulation.
So we do not confuse some readers. The 1mm clearance that I referred to as
being ample will suffice. To Attain the tolerances that Andre is the
complete regulation procedure has to be done approximately 3 times.
My definition of after touch is. Lost time and lost space. There has
to be some, any extra is a waste.
Like you I am anal about the quality of front rail punching's. I take it a
step further, and make sure the card and paper punching's are kept to a
minimum, to reduce the concertina effect.
On concert pianos I have a trade mark of a blue punching under the
felt ).010" this way I can increase the after touch very quickly at a
pianist request, with out messing with the hammer line.
I hope this clears up my position. I am in 100% agreement with you Andre.
After touch, transmits more about the soul of a piano, to the pianist than
we can ever imagine.
Thank's for your wonderful contributions Andre, they are greatly valued.
Regards Roger
At 02:28 PM 3/29/2004, you wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Jolly
To: Pianotech
Sent: 3/29/2004 7:45:00 AM
Subject: Re: Jack to knuckle position
Hi Julie,
1mm with out the front rail punching starting to become
depressed, will give a generous amount of after touch.
The front rail punching, enters into the equation big time. After
touch within limits is a personal preference.
So no black and white answer to the question.
With a smile on my face: Depends on which way the nap lies??????
mmmmmmmmmmmm
Regards Roger
After touch is a rather important issue.
I personally think a seminar of certainly 2 hours could be done about this
subject.
Why?
Because after touch determines touch and sound.
After touch is a safety measure.
Too much after touch is a waste. Too little after touch, a deficiency and
a nuisance.
Why?
When we regulate an action correctly, we have to obey certain rules, like
:
Regulation starts with the keyboard.
The keys usually all must have a key dip of 10 mm (except for regulation
rules defined by some 'idiots' (like Steinway, Pleyel and Blüthner) who
were of a different opinion. (smile...... (; >)) )
Key dip relates to hammer striking distance as, roughly speaking. 1: 5
(usually a little less in the striking distance)
This means that with a very strict key dip of 10 mm, we may expect a
hammer striking distance of a little less than 50 mm.
Both Steinway and Yamaha supply us with a striking distance gauge of 46 mm
as an average (and thus more or less correct) striking distance.
Normally speaking, 46 mm should be in accordance with a key dip of 10 mm
or even slightly less (9,8 mm).
Most actions will satisfy these demands and give us a general ok result.
However, sometimes, an action may have just a little trouble maybe with
these measures in one or two hammer sections, caused by the iron frame or
otherwise) and this will have to alter the striking distance of these same
hammer sections.
These alterations are mainly caused by the curvature of the soundboard and
the iron frame, or a technical deficiency in the action or the key bed.
To get the utmost out of any action, we must strictly follow the universal
regulation instructions and then... check the possibilities and/or
limitations of these actions.
After we have regulated an action 'according to the rules we have
learned', we could check the amount of after touch in different sections of
the action.
We do this by gently depressing 'a' key and following the subsequent
hammer movement through let off and drop.
After the hammer has gone trough the let off and 'drop' movement, the key
will immediately afterwards rest on the front rail punching.
After the key has touched the front rail punching, we should gently press
on the key and see if there still is a movement in the hammer.
By gently pressing the key after all the action movements, we should be
able to move the hammer in an upward motion by 0,4 mm.
0,4 mm is very little, but when the front punching is too soft, an after
touch of 1 mm or more is no exception.
For that reason, we MUST remove a too soft front punching before we start
regulation.
There are several very good front punching options available :
There is the Yamaha front punching for serial instruments and for Yamaha
concert instruments, there is Steinway front punching, and there is Wurzen
front punching.
These three have a thickness of 5mm basically and are excellent for any
piano.
When we are certain that the front punching is of excellent quality (this
is of course very important) the after touch can be measured very
accurately.
Any after touch of more than 0,4 mm we call a 'soft landing'.
A soft 'landing' is caused by :
a too soft front punching (the key sinks into the too soft front punching
too much)
A too large key dip (the key dip is too big in relationship with the
striking distance)
A too short striking distance (the striking distance is too little in
relationship with the key dip)
A perfect l'anding' is an after touch of 0,4 mm.
A hard 'landing' is almost no after touch or no after touch.
A hard 'landing' means that we move key, wippen and hammer through all the
playing motions without any lost motion. There is no extra movement in the
action available.
A hard 'landing' is actually the very best solution because there is no
waste of time, and no waste of energy, but at the same time it causes a
danger for the pianist when he/she plays ppp, because, when there is no
extra movement available, it may cause the jack, in extreme circumstances,
to not quite go away from under the knuckle and thereby cause the hammer to
bounce on the jack (especially when the repetition spring is tight, or when
the combination hammer-and-backcheck is not optimal).
In that case, a so called free movement of the jack after let off and drop
is essential.
friendly greetings
from
André Oorebeek
Amsterdam -
The Netherlands
0031-20-6237357
0645-492389
0031-75-6226878
www.concertpianoservice.nl
www.grandpiano.nl
"where music is, no harm can be"
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