This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment somebody posted... The attack and the decay were carefully excised, leaving the middle body of the tone, with the premise (dangerous thing to have in pure research) that without these, especially the attack, one would be hard pressed (like some hammers) to tell the difference, say, between a clarinet and an oboe. After all this work, they rounded up the usual suspects...er...experiment volunteer subjects, and found that indeed, most of them couldn't tell the difference. UNTIL, that is, a musician spoke up and asked if the volunteer subjects had any idea of what these instruments sounded like in the first place!! I remember this back in the 60's in music class as a seventh grader?? They said by the miracle of modern recording techniques you could not tell the difference between a piano tone and clarinets unless you heard heard it from beginning to end. so the attack and release was "excised". But sfw ? (so freaking what?) well t hose were the days before 'relevance' had priorities in debate or inquiry even. Actually the synthesizer people were vERy much interested but I was way too young for that. And yes I remember something about the volunteers couldn't tell the instruments apart but I still wonder at that because as a seventh grader I could sure tell the instruments apart if they were recorded naturally. That is what the whole tape was about. Back in the 5th grade we all heard Peter Wolf and Carnival of Animals so we all knew what the oboe sounded like, it was the....... ........ ummmm duh I forgot...(the flute was a bird I tink) ---ric... (the "i" stands for "I will be reminded") www.pnotec.com "Nothing is a waste of time if you use the experience wisely." Auguste Rodin (1840-1917); French sculptor. -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Barbara Richmond Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:00 PM To: Pianotech Subject: Re: backchecks, magical mystery tour OK, all of you who ever attended the PTG seminar class taught by Dr. Tom Rossing (a physicist) at Northern Illinois University back in the mid to late 80s raise your hands. (Were you there Stan?) If I remember correctly, he played recordings of instruments (or maybe just the piano) without the attack. The piano (without the attack) sounded remarkably like a pipe organ. It was amazing. Barbara Richmond, RPT ----- Original Message ----- From: J. <mailto:jstan40@sbcglobal.net> Stanley Ryberg To: pianotech <mailto:pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 8:02 PM Subject: Re: backchecks, magical mystery tour Isaac Oleg writes: I stay on the concept of the synchronism or a sequence that works better for energy reasons. The noise indeed is "masked" in the attack tone, that is what we do when tuning. I have seen experiments where the action noise and attack noise was separed from the tone, and if the tone of the piano was heard without it it was barely recognized by an audience. While I am not in a position just now to verify the following, I remember speaking with an engineering professor who was a TA (teaching assistant) during the Fetcher-Munson studies (which had to be mid-50s at the latest). One of the items from that study that we encounter daily is the existence on our stereo systems of a "loudness control" switch, or in some cases, a pot or slider. It was determined by the study that the human ear, at soft volume levels, loses high and low frequencies more quickly than mid-range frequencies, thus the adjustment to bring both ends of the spectrum up for use at low volume levels (the Fletcher-Munson Curve). Of course, we just flip the switch and leave it there, but that's a whole other story! A part of the study which I believe was NOT included in the final version, was several months of work painstakingly editing (cutting and splicing) audio tape, with different instruments (pretty much the entire orchestra) playing the same note, with differences in register accounted for by lower instruments playing lower octaves, upper instruments upper octaves. The attack and the decay were carefully excised, leaving the middle body of the tone, with the premise (dangerous thing to have in pure research) that without these, especially the attack, one would be hard pressed (like some hammers) to tell the difference, say, between a clarinet and an oboe. After all this work, they rounded up the usual suspects...er...experiment volunteer subjects, and found that indeed, most of them couldn't tell the difference. UNTIL, that is, a musician spoke up and asked if the volunteer subjects had any idea of what these instruments sounded like in the first place!!! Back to the drawing board, but this time, the same experiment with music students--and the premise fell apart completely. This is not exactly the same as what Isaac is relating, but it does seem to obtain...interesting parallel, in any case! Regards, Stan Ryberg Barrington IL jstan40@sbcglobal.net ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/7b/31/72/df/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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