Lacquer or what?

[Richard Brekne]

Erwinspiano@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 4/23/2004 8:04:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
> Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no writes:
>
>     The thing is that hardening... just about no matter how you go about
>     doing it, works to the detriment of  felts natural resiliancy. 
>
> >> *OK Ric ,I'll bite. Yes in theory I guess that's true but I think 
> the real problem & thus misconception & revulsion of lacquers as 
> voicing solution comes from A tooo soft hammer & toooo much lacquer(or 
> whatever) in attempt to rectify a manufacturing problem.*


Agreed.... as far as that goes.

>     David
>     Stanwood has done some interesting research into that aspect of this
>     whole subject matter and has a very interesting lecture with some
>     very
>     illustrative high magnification photos.
>
>    >>* I would find this interesting as I do of most the things Dave 
> expolres but it wouldn't suddenly change may philosophy of tone & 
> voicing.*


Nor should it.  You know me... I encourage free thought, figuring things 
out for yourself, and walking your own path.  Just keep on the learning 
road one way or the other and you are bound to get better and better. 

>     You will harden up the hammers with laquer... and depending on
>     what is
>     used on what you can impart a different kind of <<resiliancy>>
>     from the
>     new combined felt/laquer material that results.  
>
>  *>>Resielency is resiliency*


Not really.  Because there are other factors involved, variables that in 
each case differ despite any degree of commonality in the specifics of 
resiliency strictly defined.

>     _*But it will impart a*_
>     _*different kind of sound quality then natural felt resiliency will,*_
>
>  * Yes & no. Natural felt resiency.?? Giant can O- definition worms.*


Grin... agreed 1 billion percent.

> *   First lets clear something up for perspectives & definitions 
> sake. No one who is a serious student of voicing wants a hammer that 
> is to soft or to hard. Or under resilient or over resilient? We all 
> want Goldilocks porridge & piano hamrs to be juuuusst right.  If you 
> have a Renner hammer that's a bit to soft &,occasionly it happens, 
> what will you do? You file iron& juice & then play in time.*
> *   If I get a Ronsen ,Stwy ,Isaac hammrs that a bit to hard what do I 
> do?*
> *   I needle, reshape & a little fine filing & play in time*
> * My point is that if hammers are very close to a desired stiffness & 
> require modest efforts of either technique to achieve desired results 
> then how far apart are we in our definition of traditional voicing 
> techniques, or the final auditory outcome. How far on our thinking of 
> resilience. Not very. So the sound are not going to be very different. *
> *    On the other hand If I have more natural felt resilience left in 
> the hammer without over densification & extra heat then which 
> hamrs actually more resilience?  Once again define resilence.*
> *   The one requiring 50 strokes of needles per side  or the hmr that 
> requires only 6 to 8 or perhaps a light solution of juice to stiffen 
> the felt.? You decide. I've already voted & my elbow & ears are happy. 
> I usaully get 90% of what I want tonally with zero needles.*
> *  Here  to me is the magic & that is that what we all actually want & 
> must have for tone production is limited resielence not maximium 
> resilence.  Our semantics on this subject are kinda screwed up or at 
> least I am.*
> *  I haven't even gotten to "Traditional" yet but I'm guessin you can 
> read it be between the lines. Maybe later............*


I understand what you are saying.... but it all rests on the assumption 
that you can obtain the exact same result using hammers that are 
unlaquered and needled / filed to proper hardness as you can soft 
hammers that are doped up to that same hardness.  And I dont buy that.  
My experience tells me something else.

>     which
>     you may or may not find pleasing.  Voicing is a hugely
>     subjective... one
>     of the most subjective things in our buisness.
>
>  *>>>To this I can quite agree. Also its' what we get comfortable 
> with & what our tonal preferences are. I bet most avid voicers aren't 
> far apart in what they call great tone.*

I would tend to agree.... I'd go further... but I wont just now :)

>
>
>     Again... try out different approaches and find what you personally
>     like
>     best. We all in the end impart some of our own creativity to the
>     instruments we work on, and thats good.... yeilds variety which in
>     turn
>     insures there is something for everyone out there.
>
> >. Yeah Man!!

 This is in the end the most important bit...

>
>
>     As for me... I'll put up a fine *traditional* voiced hammer against
>     anything else out there with 100% clear confidence. 
>
>     Me too Ric 100%
>   "Traditon"  Tevia
>  
>   Happy saturday
>    Dale
>  
>  

You too  Dale... nice interchange !

Cheers
RicB

> Erwins Pianos Restorations
> 4721 Parker Rd.
> Modesto, Ca 95357
> 209-577-8397
> Rebuilt Steinway , Mason &Hamlin Sales
> www.Erwinspiano.com