Hi ! Poor poor hammers (sight !) Well here I go again with the usual speech : To get some inside about traditional voicing means accept the fact that we will ruin more or less a few sets , particularly if we are not instructed enough or working with the good people around. BUT having that knowledge is more than useful for everyday work, and not only when you have to change hammers. Becoming an acceptable voicer makes yet a difference like in Shakespeare (to be or not to be) and protect as well our ears when you tune. It is a amazing opportunity that those days some are willing to transmit to who cares, the knowledge that was for years hidden and protected jealously by a few. Ask any concert pianist, and he will tell you that very rare are good tuners, and good technicians generally, so if you want to take that train it is a way to have a more interesting work, less tuning, more nice pianos, and happy people to deal with (and believe me, I work as well for fine old ladies !). For a training, a hammer change, keeping the shanks if you want to really cut costs, may be feasible in a few days work for a beginner (let's say 3-4 days) Even if you screw up the job some, the result will be far better than with dead hammers, so I'd go for it. The first problem apparently is the lack of good hammers, the lack of understanding what a good hammer is (while some makers in the US seem to go the good direction) . (and the lack of money ;>( Steaming lacquered hammers is interesting if you like potatoes (!) Washing may certainly be an option, it helps for sure, but the tone will stay bad in the end. I had the case on a Boston (lacquered) and acetone wash makes the tone only a little more acceptable, and only after a thorough battery needling have been done to bring a tad of life in those inerte things. That mean the hammer will have to be changed nowadays. With your customer I'll do the following : Instruct the lady about hammer aging and why (do you know why ?) Explain that I try a "last resort trick with acetone" only to allow the piano to be used for some time. Get pay for that work (more than the guy that put the product) with the option that the money spend will be deducted when the hammers will be changed so you do this work with a backup in hand , and you are covered with the usual "that is good enough to me" Plan to sell a hammer change (for a fair price) later. As you will be experimenting yourself on the customer's piano it is understandable that the cost may not be that high, but in the end everyone should be happy. Chances are that the acetone will leave your customer and yourself frustrated, so be ready for it. this approach seem to me that YOU "buy" the customer problem and SHE "buy" yours as well. Now, Seem to me that the first thing we have to understand is that we have to deserve some respect for the hammer felt, it is a natural material, carefully engineered, (by enthusiast ) and it may be treated gentle, like the remaining of the instrument. Magic is not very common in piano work, it seem to but it is only work ! I don't know what to say more, the most difficult (and it does not look like) thing to learn is in fact the hearing and the evaluation of tone. No doubt listening music and concerts is a big help for that. Playing piano for sure, but isn't so necessary in the end. Because listening allows you to know beforehand where are you throwing your needles and why (or whatever action you take) and that what you hear if correct, is confirmed with what you find under your needles, that makes a whole. Another important aspect in voicing is cultural me think. Just to be clear, I'll add that even here in France, I regularly found old hammers that where 'salvaged' with dope, as it seem that many technicians don't make the difference between power and volume in their tone approach. So this is not only oversee if you see what I mean. The fact that customers call me , even after the initial job have been done by some "masters" say it all : they feel unsatisfied with something in their piano tone. For a long time I only could understand why they where unsatisfied, but was unable to get a complete picture of the reasons and how to correct that. I am very slow to understand things and to learn new tips or methods , may be because I am 47, but every new method need to be practiced again and again till the light come on. I am lucky enough to have meet a young , talented and generous piano Master, (I name it) Andre, that (seem to me) also was focused on those questions for most probably a very long time. I know understand why he (we) urge people around to get those knowledge and fast, that is a very long and difficult way if you are to find it by yourself, and at this date NEVER I find someone that could explain with an easy logic the method of traditional voicing and the tone analysis in regard of the work (and I worked among very talented people). I'll add that even Steinway techs used lacquer for some time in the 70's to darken the tone while adding power - Never I've find those jobs to be good after some time (aspirin needed) I'll presume that this had became a necessity because of the poor quality of the felt available at these moments, that had to be needled as much as 150 jabs each side for the first voicing, leaving no power in the end too often. The last 10 years had, like someone on the list said recently show a good amount of common solutions , tricks and methods leaved along the road. No doubt lacquer is , unlike Rock and Roll , going to take the little backdoor sooner or later. Then, let the force be with us ;>) Hope that smog not too much the debate. With best regards, and all encouragements possible. Isaac OLEG Entretien et réparation de pianos. PianoTech 17 rue de Choisy 94400 VITRY sur SEINE FRANCE tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98 fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90 cell: 06 60 42 58 77 -----Message d'origine----- De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la part de Richard Brekne Envoyé : mercredi 21 avril 2004 07:59 À : Pianotech Objet : Re: No needling here: to steam, or not to steam? I have no doubt that if you want to mush up those bricks you can. But I wouldnt expect a bucket full of wonderful tone colouring dynamics with hammers as you describe. That said.... you may have an old lady on your hands that had a set of rather soft and worn hammers that she liked and it might not be so difficult to get back to that. Some techs just apply voicing techniques without really taking into consideration what the customer really wants or likes and this kind of situation pops up as a result. I doubt you are going to find steam helpfull in this instance, but you can always try a few shots. If you cant satisfactorilly loosen the felt with needles in the usual way, you could also try very shallow and aggressive needling all over the very near crown area... and I mean like right up there. If that doesnt work then you are left either mushing them in whatever way you can, or suggesting a change. Go carefully forward with what you can promise. You have the opportunity to score big points, or end up just another goat with these <<old lady types>> Cheers RicB Piannaman@aol.com wrote: > Voicers, steamers, needlers, what have you, > > I have recently done a small amount of work installing short lid props > for a woman who has two pianos, a Steinway M, and a Mason A. When I > was there, she complained about the tone of the M and H, saying that > the last tuner applied something to the hammers, and it hasn't been > her sweet old piano since. > > I tried the instrument, and sure enough, it sounded like bricks > hitting tin cans. I told her that if she was dissatisfied with it, > she should call the person who juiced it and have her voice it down. > She did, and lots of needling didn't do the trick. > > When I was there last, I'd mentioned that I heard steam voicing > yielded good results, but I wasn't sure how it would work on > over-lacquered hammers. And I've never tried the technique myself, > though many on this list have sung its praises. > > She is at wit's end, and wants her old M and H tone back. I said I'd > come and check the piano out, and look into the possibility of > steaming the hammers. I'm not certain how old the hammers are, but if > something doesn't help them out soon, replacement will be in the > cards(probably not a bad thing, except financially...:-(). > > Questions: How well does this technique work on over-lacquered > hammers? Can someone describe the best way to go about it? I've > heard damp-cloth/dry iron works well. > > Maybe I should try side-needling....:-) > > Thanks for any input. I'll be scoping the piano out on Thursday. > > Dave Stahl > _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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