Non-ETs; more organic than ET?

[John M. Formsma]

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Tom,

Regarding various checks for unequal tunings, you'd use many of the same
ones. E.g., for the bass, m3-M6 for a 6:3 octave and M3-M10 for a 4:2.  Or,
you can compare the double octave with an octave-fifth. If they beat about
the same, it will sound fine. In fact, I use the latter test with ET a lot
of the time. It's fast.

There are all kinds of tests for different octave sizes which would be the
same as in ET. I'd have to get my Big Red book out to give an example, but
there are tests for all octave sizes: 2:1, 4:2, 6:3, 8:4, 12:6, etc. If
memory serves correctly, these tests work regardless of temperament. We just
get used to using them a certain way when tuning ET.

Expanding upward from the temperament octave, you'll mostly tune either 4:2
or 6:3 octaves depending on your preference. Same tests as in ET. The major
difference is that the intervals don't ascend evenly as in ET. For instance,
you wouldn't use the ascending M-10ths as a test. I typically tune the
double octave to beat the same as the octave plus a fifth. E.g., C3-C5 beats
about the same a F3-C5.

I had the same kind of questions when I first began adding unequal
temperaments to my skill set. But, once you get out of the ET only mindset,
it's really about the same without the evenly ascending intervals. Tuning
unequal temperaments aurally helped me learn to tune ET better. When you
learn what a truly just interval sounds like instead of tuning everything
"equally out of tune," it all falls into place better. At least it did for
me.

I didn't understand the "organic" reference either.

John Formsma
  -----Original Message-----
  From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]On
Behalf Of Tvak@aol.com
  Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:05 PM
  To: pianotech@ptg.org
  Subject: Re: Non-ETs; more organic than ET?



  In a message dated 4/2/04 6:16:44 PM, A440A@aol.com writes:



    mild WT's stay "in tune" longer, and the customers of
    mine that use them agree.  These temperaments are already somewhat
"organic",
    as opposed to the scientific and rigid ET.



  "Organic?"  In what manner could one possibly perceive one temperament as
more "organic" than another?  You lost me here!  Unless you're referring to
what's getting knee deep in this discussion!   (heheheh...)

  Referring to ET as rigid and scientific suggests to me the following:
When you tune ET there are a multitude of tests and reference notes you can
use to ascertain whether you have deviated from the ideal placement of each
note.  (Very scientific...)  With non-ETs there are fewer ways to check your
results.  If I'm wrong about this, correct me, but perhaps one of the
reasons you feel ET is rigid and scientific is the fact that you can double
check every note up and down the keyboard and any note that is not rigidly
where it ought to be sticks out in the checks.  The more "organic" approach
might be "sounds good, must be good/ no way to check it, so...there it is".

  My final check of my bass octaves, after having tuned them to my ear and
checking them with a 3/6 or 3/10 to ascertain that they are where they
should be, is to listen to descending M3rds, then M10ths, and finally m7ths.
This often brings to my attention an anomaly, whereby I realize that I need
to make an adjustment.  Of course, these descending parallel intervals only
work in ET.  How do you to check your bass octaves?

  I'm sure that there must be ways to check not only your temperament, but
your octaves with various non-ETs, but if there are, would someone share
them with me?  Because, frankly I like the sound of a mild non-ET but
without more tools to check myself along the way, I wouldn't attempt it
aurally.  (I've tried various temperaments with my ETDs.)

  BTW, as far as the original question goes, I agree that ET tunings are
more likely to sound in tune longer than their non-ET counterparts.  But
that's assuming that the pianist is playing in keys other than C and G all
the time.

  Tom Sivak
  Chicago

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