C/A glue [how much ????? .. and general rant ..]

[Susan Kline]

At 07:29 PM 8/31/2003 -0400, B Pottman wrote:
>In the case where the TP holes are too tight (to accept any CA) you must 
>remove the pin, coat the hole and let it cure. Good CA will cure before 
>you can finish frying bacon. (So maybe you could ask the client to cook 
>some breakfast while you work.)
>
>Additionally, a shim (installed in a TP hole) although very effective, 
>leaves a gap somewhere in the hole. CA on the other hand, leaves no gap. 
>Using a whole bunch of the stuff can make tuning a very hard job. And 
>because it requires air (humidity) to cure the more you use the longer 
>it'll take. (If you try to fill it all at once you are just making a new 
>container for the stuff.)  Just a dab will do ya. Test, rest, and repeat.


I concur. With CA, a little dab will work while a flood often will just 
make a mess.
When I hear about people using 1/2 pint of CA glue at once, I sort of 
cringe. First, that much will make a lot of very unhealthy fumes. Second, 
wherever the stuff puddles, the middle of the puddle will not set up. 
Third, even in the worst upright, not all pins are loose enough to be 
untunable. I feel that if one uses the CA just on the ones which actually 
need it, one has left the capacity to put in more later on the others. 
Also, it takes a lot less time and money to treat only the pins which 
actually must be treated.

[turn on soapbox mode:]
General observation: when tuners try something new, I think that many of 
them use too much of it, or do it too hard. Thus, when steaming hammers 
began to be tried, Yamaha had to refuse warranty coverage on hammers which 
had been steamed, because tuners would just leave them IN the spout of the 
kettle, till they became disintegrating cotton balls. When Mahaffy's zapper 
(a very useful tool at times!) was used by people for the first time, they 
got electrical contact through the center pin, and then just SAT there, 
till smoke started curling up as they incinerated the birdseye. I learned 
pretty fast to listen for the change in tone as contact was made, and use 
it as a sign to release the tweezers. Tough-customer-flanges could always 
get another short zap if needed. Similarly, I've been using vodka for 
voicing, often, with results that please me; but when I listen to classes 
or read posts talking about voicing with vodka, it seems that people are 
soaking the whole hammer. This really guts the tone, in my experience. I 
use no more than four or five drops of vodka right on the strike point, 
less if the hammer isn't rock-hard, and taper to just one small drop in the 
high treble. Also, I listen to the whole piano first, and pick out the 
worst notes. They get a little bit more than the rest. If I like the 
general level of a section, I leave it alone, and treat ONLY the brighter 
notes with a few drops. I have found, also, that repeated treatments with 
vodka have to be used cautiously. Although one would imagine that the 
hammers would pack in again, sometimes on heavily played pianos they don't, 
or they do only once. Automatic repeated use of vodka can make the tone too 
woolly, on certain pianos -- sometimes the most heavily beaten-on ones, 
oddly enough. I think that the vodka frees up the felt layers to move, if 
the hammer is played hard while still damp. Just my impression -- we could 
use some more experimentation on this topic, I feel. I try not to soak the 
hammer below about 11 and 1 o'clock. If the shoulders are too hard, I'm 
more likely to squeeze them a little rather than soak them with vodka.

IMHO, as a general principle, more usually isn't better. It takes longer, 
uses more resources, and has a greater capacity to cause problems. [turn 
off soapbox mode ...]

Back to CA:
For awhile I thought I had to tilt the piano, and remove the pin. Now, 
while I am ready for a pin to be so bad that I have to take it out, I first 
try just putting a couple of drops on the top of the tuning pin at the edge 
of the bushing, or down in the hole just above the tuning pin if there are 
no plate bushings. I keep a rag handy to catch any drips trying to run down 
the plate. So far this has worked very well for me, and I've hardly ever 
had to give up on a bad pin and take it out. Also, since I keep the small 
bottle of CA glue with the tiny long spout in my kit, I can reach it in a 
second and use it in about 1/2 minute. I leave the pitch as high as I'm 
able, go on with tuning, and then come back and attempt to set it (if the 
pitch isn't good yet) a few minutes later. If need be, I put in another 
drop or two. By using the small bottle (water thin) I can keep it current 
and usable.

I really like CA's capacity for following hairline cracks. I feel that 
whatever does get down the hole will seep into all those shattered places, 
and glue the wood back together.

With very bad upright pinblocks, the single strings, which are usually the 
worst in the piano for holding pitch, have often pulled the pin downward, 
leaving a gap just above the pin. With these notes, access for the glue 
should not be a problem.

One other thing which should be mentioned: CA glue will not work alike in 
damp and dry conditions. If the relative humidity is way down, it may not 
set up well, especially if too much is used.

I wonder -- I have plenty of humidity in Oregon, so I haven't tried this -- 
but in a very dry climate (high desert, whatever ...) what would happen if 
one prepared a loose tuning pin by putting few drops of vodka on it first? 
The alcohol dries off soon, leaving behind a little bit of dampness. Then 
the CA -- does it set right up? Maybe someone here can try it and see, on 
an old wreck. Take a bunch of loose pins, divide them into two groups, use 
just CA on one group and vodka followed by CA on the other -- compare results.

Well, chatter chatter ...

Susan Kline