Pitch Raise, was: Standard Pitch

[David Love]

Hello Isaac:

Bushing time can take longer when you start to include everything else like
cleaning and polishing.  In fact, I usually take some time after a bushing
job to level the keys, which means you then must adjust the capstan and
check the dip.  That does add some time.  I prefer to let the wood dry
completely too.  Sizing the mortises with sizing cauls is not a bad idea
either.  For polishing the pins I prefer to use "Flitz" if they are bad, a
product called "Noxon" if they are not too bad, and if they are very bad,
or if some of the plating is missing, I replace them.  There is no nice way
to clean pins.  It's a lousy job but somebody's got to do it.  On an action
rebuild I generally just replace them.  Usually balance pins are drilled
through so you can turn the action upside down and punch them out.  Insert
new ones and secure with a drop of CA glue from the underside.   Front rail
pins can be pulled using a pair of wire cutters which grip them nicely and
a dowel to act as a fulcrum and pry them out.    

David Love
davidlovepianos@earthlink.net


> [Original Message]
> From: Isaac sur Noos <oleg-i@noos.fr>
> To: <davidlovepianos@earthlink.net>; Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Date: 10/11/2003 1:12:52 AM
> Subject: RE: Pitch Raise, was: Standard Pitch
>
> Hello David,
>
> Your damper's time impress me, for keys, I count on 6 hours to do a
> complete keyboard, but I clean the sides, buff the ivories, and have a
> little supplement time because of inserting the bushing in the
> capsule.
>
> What I've find is that anyway we need to allow the wood to dry after
> moistening, so we have to leave the parts a day with the cauls in.
>
> Of course not always possible.
>
> What is your favorite process to clean the pins ? I find that to be a
> too long job if they are a little dirty, and it is not always possible
> to change them easely.
>
> BTW, the rivet pliers works fine to extract the balance pins, but the
> jaws inside  the tool may be drilled to accomodate the different pin
> sizes.
>
> Your hammer flange repin time seem well in the official times, as for
> instance a pinning job is sold us around $70 (Abel in Germany).
>
> I guess that using long centers (and not pre cut ones) , as it burnish
> the felt while passing (avoid burnisher use) , helps to cut the time
> even more  .
>
> And yes, since I ream one way only (same than the original insertion
> of the center) , I've find results more consistent and rarely have to
> use 2 sizes up centers.
>
> Greetings
>
>
> Isaac OLEG
>
> Entretien et reparation de pianos.
>
> PianoTech
> 17 rue de Choisy
> 94400 VITRY sur SEINE
> FRANCE
> tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98
> fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90
> cell: 06 60 42 58 77
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org
> > [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la
> > part de David Love
> > Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:06
> > A : Pianotech
> > Objet : Re: Pitch Raise, was: Standard Pitch
> >
> >
> > Hello Joe:
> >
> > While I've got you in the tuning area--takes me about an
> > hour to tune, add
> > fifteen minutes for a pitch raise.   I don't think my
> > tunings suffer for
> > stability.  But it takes me 3 hours to do the bushings
> > including sizing the
> > balance rail pin after steaming, polishing the balance and
> > front rail pins
> > before reinstalling the keys (not counting pick up and
> > delivery).  Takes me
> > about the same to replace a set of keytops depending on how
> > easily the old
> > ones come off--I do use the moulded tops btw (again, not
> > counting pick up
> > and delivery).  I'm with you on resurfacing the hammers
> > depending on how
> > bad they are.  Dampers depend on what's done.  When doing a
> > damper job I
> > almost always rebush the damper guide rail including new
> > felt on the feet
> > and a coat of shellac on the wood, change the upstop felt,
> > clean and polish
> > the heads and wires, remove and check the underlevers for
> > pinning and
> > weight, replace the tray felt, relocate the spring if
> > necessary, change the
> > leather in the trapwork, replace the trap pins or clean and
> > polish, open up
> > the lyre and inspect the pedals changing the bushing cloth
> > if necessary as
> > well as the rest cushions, polish the pedal rods (or replace with
> > adjustable), replace the lyre guide felt if worn, replace
> > the rod cups
> > install damper felt and regulate, and if the key end felt
> > is worn I replace
> > that as well.  Did I forget anything?  For all that... a
> > day and a half.
> > Just removing old damper felt and gluing on new and
> > regulating, about 4
> > hours but I don't generally do it that way.    At ten hours
> > to repin an
> > entire grand action, I'd think about replacing parts.
> > Takes me two hours
> > to repin a set of hammer flanges.  At eight hours to repin
> > the wippens, I'd
> > replace them unless there was some compelling reason not to.
> >
> > David Love
> > davidlovepianos@earthlink.net
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Joseph Garrett <joegarrett@earthlink.net>
> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > > Date: 10/10/2003 6:07:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Pitch Raise, was: Standard Pitch
> > >
> > > I've been reading all of this Bravado and some truthful
> > times it takes to
> > do
> > > quality tuning. To those who admit to over 1 1/2 hrs, I
> > say fine. Y'all
> > are
> > > not doing bad at all!
> > > I've been tuning for over 30 years. My average time for a
> > first time
> > client,
> > > is over 2 hours. Sometimes going as much as 6 hours, for
> > one tuning. Of
> > > course, the ones that take over 2 hours are usually some
> > weird critter
> > like
> > > a square grand or an over-damper piano.
> > > Today, I returned, after 6 months, to a Gonzales, Square
> > Grand, that
> > > initially was 45cents flat of 435cps. The initial visit
> > took 5 hours. Of
> > > course, part of that 5 hours, was spent indocrinating the
> > client about
> > > square grands and another part was aligning hammers, cleaning the
> > interior,
> > > etc. Today, I found all but a few notes well within 2
> > cents of where I put
> > > it, 6 months ago! The extra time that I spent, initially,
> > paid off TODAY.
> > > Within 2 1/2 hours, I tuned it, cleaned the Ivory keys,
> > dusted/cleaned and
> > > installed a repaired damper lever, that I have had in the
> > shop for, lo,
> > > these last 6 months. (It was A0 and had been muted
> > off.<G>) It is my
> > belief
> > > that "rushing" through a tuning is counter productive for
> > long term
> > > stability. However, "dawdling" through a pitch
> > raise/tuning is also
> > > counter-productive.
> > > What I'd really like to see/hear from a lot of you
> > guys/gals, is how fast
> > > you can, efficiently and proficiently do a set of key
> > bushings, a set of
> > key
> > > tops, a resurfacing of hammers, a set of dampers,
> > (install and regulate),
> > or
> > > any of the many tasks we all do to make a piano better.
> > > FYI, I can do a set of key bushings, (out/in), in less
> > than 2 hours;
> > replace
> > > keytops, (Ivorine...NOT those damned "moulded"
> > thingees!)..2 hours,
> > Surface
> > > a set of hammers in less than an hour. Repin EVERY flange
> > in a grand
> > action
> > > in less than 10 hours. All of these things can be done
> > efficiently,
> > without
> > > being destructive to your physical well-being. Whereas,
> > > "slam/bang/thankyoumam tunings" are really hard on the
> > body/mind, IMSO!
> > > Let's put our "speed" where it counts. Just a few
> > thoughts on the subject
> > of
> > > "Speed".<G>
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Joe Garrett, RPT, (Oregon)
> > > Captain, Tool Police
> > > Squares Are I
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
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