Though I am trying to keep out of these types of discussions, I feel compelled to comment. I took Gordon's comments as a criticism of the current administration with respect to the intentions of the founding fathers. I caught his sarcasm and, in fact, agree with him in this respect. The founding fathers were smart enough to recognize that war was serious, dirty, expensive business, wrought with many unforeseen perils that historically has brought down many of the great nations. They, therefore, wanted to make it particularly difficult to go to war and wrote into the articles that a formal declaration of war by the congress would be required. This was in part to insure that some individual with a personal or misguided motive for embarking on such a program might be brought under the checks and balances that make this system so great. The current administration seems bent on not only acting unilaterally, in defiance of world opinion, but without the approval of congress in the form of a formal declaration of war. If Iraq represents a clear and present danger--the proof of which has not been found by the inspectors, nor been provided by the administration, then Congress should be approached by the President for a formal declaration of war as our founding fathers intended (and as Gordon, I believe, was arguing, in effect). Unless that happens, then I don't support the administration's attempt to act without such approval and, in my opinion, neither should anyone else. David Love ----- Original Message ----- From: <tune4u@earthlink.net> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: January 18, 2003 9:02 PM Subject: Re: I HAVE AS MUCH REVERENCE FOR THE FOUNDING FATHERS AS ANYONE! Unless you count elections as polls, nobody EVER took a "poll of 350,000 souls." The Gallup and Time/Warner/Clinton polls, etc., typically poll about 1,000 people, tops. If the sample is chosen correctly, it is a great enough sample size, called "N," to ensure statistical significance. Where do you get this stuff, anyway? Oh, yeah. Kook-sites on the Internet. Whatever happened to that movie Hollywood was going to make about your incredibly weird life? >From now on, Gordon, you are persona incog-delete-o for me. I support my country, you trash it. End of it. Sorry to prolong it, list, but the Thumpster is, if nothing else, an expert button pusher! Alan Salem, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon stelter" <lclgcnp@yahoo.com> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:31 PM Subject: I HAVE AS MUCH REVERENCE FOR THE FOUNDING FATHERS AS ANYONE! > Thank you, and that was SARCASM in my post!!! > I have IMMENSE respect for the founding fathers, > shed tears at Monticello and Washington's tomb, rowed > the whole Erie canal at 15, and am utterly, completely > dismayed by what America has become!!! I also believe > that the Founding Fathers currently AGREE with me, > from their current abode and, YES, my ancestors fought > that war, having been here since 1628!!!!!!!!!!! > And I have very little doubt that, were the > Constitution written today, our CURRENT "Mad King > George" - who has backed us out of numerous > International treaties yet wants to assault any other > nations which try the same - would dismiss the > Constitution as liberal tripe ( If he could understand > it!!! ) > I, like MOST PEOPLE ON EARTH consider him a VERY > DANGEREOUS CREATURE! A recent international poll of > 350,000 souls PROVES that FAR more are worried about > BUSH than Saddam! And ALL 17 of our Intelligence > agencies ( in a report requested by Phil Gramm, > Republican, Texas ) recommend AGAINST invading Iraq, > saying that Saddam will attack NO-ONE unless attacked > first! Yet BUSH persists, although they said such an > invasion would unleash terrorism upon us with untold > civilian casualties! ( To which the Bush > administration said, in effect: "That's just how it > goes..." HE'S THE PRESIDENT! HE'S SUPPOOSED TO > PROTECT AMERICANS: NOT PUT THEM AT RISK!!!!!! > Think about it! > Thump > > --- Erwinspiano@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/18/2003 8:03:59 PM Pacific > > Standard Time, > > Erwinspiano@aol.com writes: > > > > > Subj: off list-private was news flash > > > Date: 1/18/2003 8:03:59 PM Pacific Standard Time > > > From: <A > > > HREF="mailto:Erwinspiano@aol.com">Erwinspiano@aol.com</A> > > > Reply-to: <A > > > HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> > > > To: <A > > > HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> > > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 1/18/2003 7:08:51 PM Pacific > > Standard Time, > > > lclgcnp@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > >> Subj: Re: NEW FLASH [OT] > > >> Date: 1/18/2003 7:08:51 PM Pacific Standard Time > > >> From: <A > > > HREF="mailto:lclgcnp@yahoo.com">lclgcnp@yahoo.com</A> > > >> Reply-to: <A > > > HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> > > >> To: <A > > > HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> > > >> Sent from the Internet > > >> > > > > Thump and List > > > > > > I aplogize for screwing up what was supposed > > to be a private post > > > Sicerely > > > > Dale Erwin > > > > > Thump > > > >> > > >> I Really OBJECT To your statement of total > > disrespect of our founding > > >> fathers as they were probably some of your/mine > > relatives who paid for the > > >> freedoms we now enjoy with their blood and > > familles fortunes. > > > > > > .>> > > >> > > >> That's > > funny.....................................I > > >> only thought, Constitutionally, that CONGRESS > > could > > >> declare war! > > >> But, then, Bush doesn't seem to CARE much for > > >> that document, written by a bunch of liberal > > idiots > > >> 200 years ago! > > >> Thump > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! 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