This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Re: Killer Octave QuestionHi, lighten on those Erards' (or I send you pictures of the Chickering ;>) they where sold to be holding around 50 years, build to hold 100 years, and the last 1936 grand concert model I've seen, (90 notes) while having lost most of the crown in the killer zone of the Bermudas, (under 30%RH and way too much heat) is yet giving us something of a piano tone. excerpt of a Erard London catalogue : "The DURABILITY of the ERARD Pianoforte is proverbial , and is one of its most valuable characteristics. While many instruments are worthless after a few years' use, the ERARD can be effectively restored to its original excellent condition when 30years or even 50 years old". I have meet a few 1915-25 Erards' over strung with a REAL crowning from bass to treble (2 that I recall for sure) , the owners never care to have them rebuild or even repaired as they are yet giving a nice tone (that is desperation for the piano technician) I was not aware of the crowning method employed in these days so I did not took notes and pictures, but I know one of them I can have a look at and I will try to these days. I had make the effort to go under the piano with a thread on the 2 pianos I think of. Building and installing crown compressed soundboards have been told me as being far way more difficult than rib crowned ones, and I see no advertising about the method nowhere (and indeed most pianist should not understand the difference). Seems unfair to me to talk as you do. I have the impression too that everyone there is focusing on crown and durability, while not many are comparing the response characteristics of the methods. While building soundboard that are supposed to travel and be installed in a repaired instrument far from the soundboard building place it is understandable that crown compression (and not only if I understand well) is used, but how can you attain an internal assembly tension as high and then a delay in springiness response with the ribs as the most active elements ? Are not we using this process to build the internal spring rate of the soundboard ? Being not experienced in these process I certainly will not argue on those matters with you, but I seem to recall that even Del was building so called "compression crowned soundboard in its early stages" BTW thanks, Del for your clearing on the "neutral fiber laying" it was exactly that concept I was talking of . I liked you to admit that may be those that still use this method don't understand nothing to the process !!! , but they certainly not do that for facility reasons , nor for marketing, from what I know, I am yet to see a brand saying something about their crown building method (while the process is better known actually because of such a lobbying made, may be Steinway NY advertise on that now ???) Everybody agrees we could build pianos without any crown if necessary, so the presence of crown is not the only proof of the taste of the pudding I'd say ! Well the next soundboard I will build I will use S shaped ribs and a compressssed sssshaping method . Or we'll do again a soundboard with strings on the 2 sides to produce eventually a double vertical (for twin brothers or sisters that should be nice). Have a nice Easter anyone ! Isaac OLEG Isaac OLEG Entretien et reparation de pianos. PianoTech 17 rue de Choisy 94400 VITRY sur SEINE FRANCE tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98 fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90 cell: 06 60 42 58 77 -----Message d'origine----- De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la part de Ron Overs Envoye : lundi 21 avril 2003 01:23 A : Pianotech Objet : Re: Killer Octave Question Ron N. and all, Yes indeed. Now this leads me to wonder just how much longer we might expect a sound board with a properly laminated panel to last? Hi Ron, Wouldn't the question more fundamentally be how much longer will the panel last if we design it to be rib supported rather than panel supported? Ron N I am assuming that a serious sound board will be rib crowned, but a laminated all spruce panel with rib crowning must surely be an excellent combination. I am assuming that any piano maker worth his/her salt will be using the RC process for crown. I cannot understand how anyone who claims to be serious about piano manufacture would use compression crowning. The reality is, of course, that those who persist in using it are focused on the marketing and not the product. Its a lot quicker to make sound boards with straight planed ribs, while drying the hell out of the panel to achieve a crown which hopefully lasts long enough for the castors to come to rest on the lounge-room carpet. Recently, Del and Terry were discussing a certain manufacturer who claimed to have achieved perfection by 1930. An Erard representative made a similar claim at an 1880s trade fair (it is mentioned in Men Women and Pianos - but I haven't been able to find the reference - should anyone know the page no. of this quote I would be interested to hear). And where can the famous Erard be found today outside of Museums? The logical conclusion we can draw is that claiming perfection is an admission of 'pending corporate death'. Certainly one swallow doesn't make it summer, but here we have two swallows. There's always some-one waiting in the wings to carry the banner forward. Regarding the fit-up of flat bridges to crowned sound boards, as I think one other technician mentioned on the list, we are talking strictly about the fit-up of a logarithmic style long bridges. Hockey stick long bridges truly are 'dust bin' technology. Ron O. -- _______________________ OVERS PIANOS - SYDNEY Grand Piano Manufacturers Web: http://overspianos.com.au mailto:info@overspianos.com.au _______________________ ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/3d/a5/98/06/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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