Isaac, This is more useful information than I dreamt off. I have now to digest all this, and practice a lot. Be sure I appreciate much. Thanks for taking all that time. Stéphane Collin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac OLEG" <oleg-i@wanadoo.fr> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:40 PM Subject: Stéphane Collin | Stéphane , | | First let me insist on one fact, very important, you may absolutely be | able to regulate the key frame with the correct (even and minimal or | medium) pressure , or weight, of the action on the keybed (balance | rail). You may be able to lift the balance with the bedding screws | with 2 fingers (with a little hurting in the fingers), and hear a | light knock while lightly tapping on the capsule with one or 2 fingers | (springy feel in the fingers). No bumping, you can roughly check with | the palm of your hand, the sensation is more pushing fast on the | keyframe than knocking on it. Then, for a fine tuning of the balance | and the bedding, push lightly on the left pedal, and bump with your | fist on the stretcher, if you hear a rattle, check where it come from | by lightly putting your finger on the different bedding screws, or | different parts of the frame. You can find and suppress all the | knocking, and obtain then the perfect bedding). Without that a good | regulation is not possible. The frame is often warping a little with | time, I always check it before a tuning. | | While regulating your bedding, check the key height, and the dip, | sometime compromising is necessary, but if you have too much pressure | on the frame, the tone will be closed more , if not enough pressure it | will be weak. | | Some lousy techs use that condition if the hammers are too hard, to | open the tone, at the detriment of the touch. | On the other side they sometime put way too much pressure on the frame | with shot hammers, to give a "whip" effect. | | After 4 years working on these lousy regulations, I finally checked | pianos regulated by a real master, and have some good clearing done by | Andre, so I absolutely know what is (a perfect) good touch now. | If your frame is not bedded well, the tone will be bad, you will try | to correct it with voicing and it will not work. | | THE DROP IS RELATED TO JACKS POSITION (& LETOFF) THESE DETERMINE WHAT | YOUR DROP WILL BE. | | So the drop 'shows the truth about the precedent regulations. | | I regulate the drop screw from above so it stop the lever when the | jack begin to move off the roller ( You can feel the jacks move | beginning ). If I feel the jack bumping on the roller I am gone too | far. | | If the drop is more than the letoff dimension you can begin to check | the jack's position. A rule of thumb drop=letoff. | | Drop lower = more friction, but sometime you may allow low drop low | letoff because the hammers are too short. I've seen pianos with a good | touch while letoff at 0.4 mm because then it happened in the friction | zone (remember the line between hammer pin and whippen pin) If the | drop & letoff can't be felt pianists are more prone to play wrong | notes. | | Having the drop happening too early will lighten adversely the touch, | while when you regulate it slowly you feel than you have a clear hard | spot, when playing it is too light. | | | Then I can check slowly the letoff moment and ascertain there is no | play before drop moment and letoff beginning moment. | That is better understandable with your own fingers than your brain, | as I noticed when asking detailed explanations to Andre an innumerous | number of times (thanks for all Antares). | | What Andre explained me that was really useful is to "count" one -two | (one for jack's contact, two for drop contact, and synchronize them) | The difficulty is to keep that feeling , as the hammer may go up | slowly and regularly for that job. You can go really slow but it is | tiring, if you do that by feel you can regulate all the keyboard very | quick, then do a second pass to refine. | All in all that may take less than 1/2 hour. | | You may compare with neighboring keys when regulating, that means | having one key down (without too much press ion) , and moving the | neighbor for regulation. Then you catch immediately little | differences, and correct on the fly jack's position or letoff, so you | may have your tools at hand. | | Don't compress the punching when regulating drop, that is the feel, | the good drop shows the hammer opening at letoff ! | | More after touch means too more spring compression, depending of the | hammer weight, the pinning, it is sometime necessary. | | The way the hammer "land" show you (visually) if your drop is well | regulated, but you may have a somewhat good springs tension, not too | much play in the lever window (enough to see the hammer move when the | jack reengage (too much move, not enough play), perfectly even white | keys dip, and roughly check, even if the hammer does not go in check | usually when regulating drop, but because you may check some notes and | that the checking may not be really off then. | | Anyway, actually : first pass by feel 1---2 >> 1--2 1-2 1-1 , some | tweaking on jacks position, , window play, letoff, when too much or | too little. Then a second pass to refine, after the after touch have | been evened and regulated for the sharps. The drop is always moving so | don't worry too much about it on the first pass, it is easier the | second time, but the first pass when well done is enough before a | tuning for example. | | Checking after touch is checking the move of the jack disengaged, so | you first bottom the key clearly without hammer in check (slow | enough), and then you regulate the freeness of the key at its bottom | ( up and down) that freeness is the move of the jack back and forth, | one side the key is bottom, the other side the jack touch the roller. | | If your drop have been well regulated you obtain what is called "clear | touch". Even on old actions we may look for that. | | For a long time I concentrate on a stop moment in hammer travel , | thinking it was the desired sensation. | | In fact the more important sensation I believe is that you have only | one point of beginning for the friction, generally if the stop is too | much felt under the key, if you check the beginning of the hammer | letoff you will discover that the drop is limiting the lever before | the jack moves. Looking at the hammer movement is more precise in this | case that feeling under the finger, as when regulating, we don't play | with enough speed the key. | | It is useful not to Teflon knuckles before the end of the regulation, | as to keep a good feel of the jacks friction. | | Hope that helps. | | Isaac OLEG | | | | | | > -----Message d'origine----- | > De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org | > [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la | > part de Stéphane Collin | > Envoyé : mercredi 18 septembre 2002 10:12 | > À : Pianotech | > Objet : Regulate by feel (was : Bechstein grand spread dimension) | > | > | > Thank you David. | > | > Am I right assuming that the more drop, the more and for | > longer time friction between the jack and the knuckle ? Is | > it this friction that you feel when regulating drop ? | > While we are on that subject, do you regulate let off by | > feel also, or with a gauge ? | > | > Just another thaught : I sometimes feel that good touch | > feel is playing against good performance. I.e. : I think I | > can achieve much better repetition when reducing aftertouch | > (but loosing the good feeling of the notch). Or, I can | > achieve a better touch when completely disabling the | > repetition spring (but loosing repetition performance). I | > also feel that pianists are more often disturbed by hard | > touch feel, than by poor repetition. Many times, when I | > chose to favor the quick repetition to the extreme, | > pianists don't even notice that (even very good ones). | > This makes me favor indeed the feel approach that you | > recommend, and makes me want to develop my abilities in | > that direction. | > | > Best regards, | > | > Stéphane Collin. | > | > try this : alt + 0233 | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "David Andersen" <bigda@gte.net> | > To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> | > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 7:35 AM | > Subject: Re: Bechstein grand spread dimension, | > | > | > | >Can I ask you how you define a good aftertouch ? By feel | > at the key ? by | > | >precise measuring (at the key or at the jack) ? | > | | > | By feel at the key. The "notch" has a certain, | > unmistakable good | > | feeling when it is "right." | > | Drop, regulated properly, has a crucial effect on a good | > feeling in the | > | "notch," or aftertouch. | > | Drop is also something i regulate both visually, but | > mostly by feel. | > | Regulation is a web of interacting sensations in "test mode" that | > | translate into evenness and pleasure of touch. Every | > aspect of regulation | > | has an effect on the eventual feel of the instrument, and | > that's why you | > | can't drop anything out , and why one should challenge | > oneself to focus | > | on every regulation step on every note. This is easier | > when you focus on | > | a feeling, sound, or visual, rather than doing the | > protocol "on automatic" | > | and focusing your attention on your thoughts. | > | | > | Another David---David Andersen | > | _______________________________________________ | > | pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives | > | | > | > _______________________________________________ | > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives | > | | _______________________________________________ | pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives |
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