Impressive Steinway Upright

[Alan R. Barnard]

Ah, ha. These are, I presume, what are sometimes called "sound traps" in
uprights?

I just never thought about an equivalent part of a grand and never heard the
term "cut-off bar." Have seen them, now that I think on it, but the
soundboard in my little 1921 Geo. Steck goes to the rim all around.

Thanks for the lesson, Terry & Tony.

Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Caught" <caute@optusnet.com.au>
To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Impressive Steinway Upright


> Alan, Terry,
>
> A soundboard should be totally under the influence of the strings. By
saying
> that I mean that any part of the soundboard that is not immediately and
> directly influenced by the strings should be made dead.
> This is done by putting cut-off bars across (usually the corner sections)
> the soundboard to stop that section from vibrating with the strings.
> As an example,
> When the piano is played with the dampers off the strings, all the strings
> are vibrating as is the soundboard. When the dampers re-engage the strings
> the strings (hopefully) stop vibrating and so should the soundboard.
> In a board with no cut-off or dumb bar, some sections, i.e. the corner
> sections, carry on vibrating with rubbish sounds that linger on.
> When played without using the damper pedal, these areas keep sounding the
> vibrations of previous notes played thus muddling the sound that the
> listener hears.
> One of the major differences between uprights and grands is related to
this
> factor.
>
> When you listen to a grand the sound is cleaner that in most uprights
> because of this.  When you look at a grand soundboard you can see that the
> rim of the piano virtually follows the shape of the bridge and the cut-off
> bar cuts off the uncontrollable section of the soundboard in the bass
corner
> of the board. The cut-off bar can also be in line with the treble bridge
to
> also keep more balance to the board.
>
> Were a soundboard "rimmed the same as a grand piano" that is in relation
to
> the bridges, then the upright would give the same output of sound as the
> grand.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Tony Caught
> caute@optusnet.com.au
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
> To: "Alan R. Barnard" <mathstar@salemnet.com>; "Pianotech"
> <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Impressive Steinway Upright
>
>
> > A cut-off bar is a piece of wood, sometimes solid, sometimes laminated,
> that, on a grand, has one end located about 1/4 to 1/2 the way down the
> straight (bass) side of the rim, and the other end attached to the belly
> rail perhaps a foot or more from the bass end. The cut-off bar is part of
> the inner rim of the piano and effectively (or at least as it is designed)
> terminates the soundboard at that point. The soundboard actually extends
all
> the way to the forward bass corner, but does not have an acoustic role -
> that portion of the board is cosmetic. As a very broad generality, cheap,
> small pianos do not have cut-off bars, better pianos often do. Del and/or
> some others could explain the hows and whys of it, but all I am willing to
> say here is that it helps the soundboard do its job better. A big
laminated
> bar is just that. Some cut-off bars are just a 1x2 or so solid piece of
> lumber. I wonder how effective that is. I should think that if there is a
> good reason to make a thick !
> > massive rim, then there would also be some logic to making the cut-off
bar
> as massive as the rest of the rim (or at lest more than a 1x2). You can
have
> the same thing on an upright. Most I have seen on uprights have been a
> smaller solid piece of hardwood. The one on this Steinway has quite a
thick
> cross section (I didn't measure it).
> >
> > That leads me to a question I have thought of many times. Rather than
> putting a cut-off bar on a piano - my thoughts are usually of a grand -
why
> not just bend the darn rim where you would otherwise have the bar and have
a
> continuous rim run right into and be part of the top portion of the belly
> rail. That way the inner rim would run from the high treble front corner
of
> the board, around the outside sides of the piano, and continue right
across
> the front of the board to the goofy belly-rail-soundboard-extendo-thingee
> where there are no dampers (what on earth is that part of the belly rail
> called - that little extendo box type jag in the belly rail?). That way
the
> rim would be one continuous bent & laminated chunk that would only be
broken
> by that high treble thingee (see last sentence). And actually, you could
run
> the inner rim that is part of the belly rail right to the high treble side
> rim, but you just wouldn't want to attach the soundboard to it (you would
> want to make i!
> > t a tad shorter - so the box extendo thingee can do its job). We want to
> make the belly one solid structure (as I understand it), and I have always
> wondered why on earth pianos have a separate belly rail. What a great way
to
> weaken the whole assembly.
> >
> > While I am at it, why have wooden beams on the bottom of the inner rim.
> Wouldn't an underbelly plate be just the ticket? No beams. No tension
> resonator. Just a cast iron (or whatever) plate. It could run along the
> entire belly rail and the inside side of the inner rim. Or maybe even a
> combination of wood and metal - I guess the wooden beams are kinda nice
for
> nose bolt attachment points.
> >
> > I'm probably full of bologna here, but these are concerns of mine.
> >
> > That's all.
> >
> > Terry Farrell
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alan R. Barnard" <mathstar@salemnet.com>
> > To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 5:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: Impressive Steinway Upright
> >
> >
> > > What, please, is "a big laminated cut-off bar?"
> > >
> > > Alan Barnard
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 2:27 PM
> > > Subject: Impressive Steinway Upright
> > >
> > >
> > > > I am the happy new owner of an 1892 Steinway 54" upright piano. It
is
> > > beautifully worn out and ready for remanufacture. It is impressive. It
> has
> > > full sostenuto and a full grand-style 2-inch thick bent hardwood rim
for
> the
> > > soundboard and a big laminated cut-off bar. The plate extends to the
> piano
> > > bottom and has a couple-inch wide flange that bolts to the bottom of
the
> > > piano (the flange is 90 degrees to the plate). I haven't taken it
apart
> yet,
> > > but I imagine it has the upper pinblock flange as well (my 1900 S&S
> upright
> > > has this).
> > > >
> > > > It won't happen tomorrow, but someday this will indeed be quite a
> piano.
> > > Anyone know what models have the bent rim? Why and when did Steinway
> stop
> > > using the bent rim. The only other bent rim I have ever seen on an
> upright
> > > was on a Bush & Lane.
> > > >
> > > > Terry Farrell
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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