At 07:56 PM 9/12/02, Alan Barnard wrote: >Tuned an "L" .... piano today and got thinking while = >wrestling with it. Pinblock quite tight (somewhat jumpy pins), string = >movement resistance quite high, and the collarless pins VERY sensitive = >to pressure in any direction--up pitch, down pitch, flagpoling, = >whatever. Hi Alan, belated welcome to the list. I live in the Ozarks also, so maybe we will meet in person sooner or later. Steinway pianos take a different approach to tuning. I have some questions for you: How old is the piano? Brand new? A few years old? Older? New Steinways are easier to tune than older Steinways. Is there any rust on the strings? If there is rust on the strings, it can cause problems with the string rendering through the agraffe. Also, the rust on the strings can catch on the fibers of the understring cloth between the tuning pin and agraffe. If there is rust, it is helpful to lubricate the strings with Protek to allow the strings to move across the cloth and through the agraffe. Use a good quality brush with natural fibers (no nylon bristles) to brush all the dust away from the understring cloth. Vacuum all the dust and debris from around the tuning pins and strings. Then, use a hypo oiler to apply a few drops of Protek along each string where it crosses the understring cloth. Then one very small drop of Protek at each point where the string goes through the hole in the agraffe, and also where the string crosses under the capo bar. Did you do a pitch correction while tuning? If so, how much pitch change? A pitch change of more than 4 cents requires a separate tuning pass to do the fine tuning. Do the pitch correction very quickly (10 or 20 minutes max... Don't worry, you will get that fast with practice), then follow-up with a fine tuning. Do you tune aurally, or with a tuning device? I ask this, because I have a few "beast" pianos that were terrible to tune aurally for me, because of the frustration of the pitch drop when trying to fine tune. When I use the tuning device to assist, I can see (as well as hear) the string movement, and it is easier for me to tune these "beasts". I actually wrote a letter about several of these pianos that I called "untunable" because of similar problems as you describe. After 4 or 5 years of experience tuning these same pianos, they are still "beasts", but do hold a nice tuning. It just takes more time. Whenever I tune one of these pianos, I can expect to add an extra 1/'2 hour to hour to the tuning time. If I don't take the time to work with the piano, the tuning isn't as good. Many people probably tune much faster than me, and that is okay. I just take the time I need to do a nice tuning. How much experience do you have tuning? How many pianos have you tuned? With more experience, and with more tunings completed, You will learn what you have to do to get the piano to behave. Tune as many pianos as you can, and improve upon each tuning. When you have the tuning lever on the tuning pin, which direction does the handle of the tuning lever point in relation to the string you are tuning? 90 degrees to the string? Parallel to the string? Be careful to move the tuning lever in a plane parallel to the string. If you bend the tuning pin, it can "flagpole", as you have probably already discovered. You can carefully "spring" the tuning pin into place and it will hold. But if you bend the pin, it will "flagpole" and go back out of tune. >I find many notes very hard to pull in for sweet unisons. If the piano has a lot of wear on the hammers (deep grooves and flat spots on the crown), the tuning won't sound as good compared to a piano with nice hammers. You may be hearing a lot of hammer noise (unlevel strings, hammers that aren't "mated" to the strings, etc.) Also, if the hammers are very hard with a bright sound, it is harder to get a sweet sound. If this is an old piano, and the agraffes and capo bar have a lot of string wear (grooves), it can be hard to tune clean unisons. Also, if the piano has not been tuned in a long time, the wire may have developed bends (around the bridge pins, under the capo bar, and through the agraffes) that resist your attempts to move the string to a new position. The strings also may have developed flat spots, and it can be difficult to get the string to move through the agraffe because of this. If the bridge pins are loose, or if the bridge surface has grooves, clean unisons are more difficult to tune. Also, in the high treble, you may be hearing a lot of noise from the rear duplex section (the aliquots) where the strings are unmuted. It is helpful to mute off this section of the piano while tuning, and you will find that a lot of the false beats that you hear will go away. Don Manino made some bean bags that are very good for muting off the duplex area. >I was = >personally taught by Randy Potter how to tune stable strings & pins but = >found that moving the pin in teeny notches is very hard--too high, too = >low, too high ... After you get the tuning pin close to the pitch you want, use steady pressure on the tuning lever. You can "massage" the string into tune. I have found that with old Steinway grands with rust on the strings, I almost always have to approach the pitch from below. If you try to approach pitch from above, you will find that the string suddenly goes very flat. At first, move the tuning pin close to pitch using very small movements of the tuning lever. But once you are close, use a steady push on the tuning lever to get the final movement of the tuning pin. >If I got it just a hair over pitch and tried to settle everything with = >back pressure on the hammer, it dropped way too much. Approach the pitch from below. >Finally, with time = >running out and getting a little desperate, I started dropping pitch = >(about a 45 degree turn of the hammer) That is a LOT of tuning pin movement! But I can relate to your frustration. Next time allow more time. Try to make very small movements. Large movements make a stable tuning more difficult. > and tuning "from the bottom" with = >a smooth steady pull while wanging the string pretty hard. YES! Very firm blows with the hammer. When you start breaking strings and action parts, back off on your test blow a little bit! Tune from the bottom. >Most of the = >time I could stop right on pitch --even on strings I had spent WAY too = >long trying to tune the "normal" way. > >But I worry about how stable they are as I could not "set" the pin in = >the usual way. Call the customer a few days or week later to ask how they liked the tuning, and if there are any problems. It may be just fine to them. If they have any problems, take care of them and they will be happy. >Is this pretty typical Steinway? Yes, I find this pretty typical. But, the tight tuning pins? Not so typical. >What about stability in these circumstances? See if you can visit the piano in a week or two and play it. You can see for yourself if it is a stable tuning. >What hammer techniques do y'all use on the beasts? There is a good book on tuning lever technique by someone on list. (Can't remember the name right now.) Help me out here, people! >NOTE: While tuning, I was rehearsing a pretty negative inner dialog = >about Steinway and all of their "genuine Steinway parts;" thinking how = >expensive they are and how much they look like every other piano, etc. = Do what you can to get rid of the negative thoughts. I can't do a good tuning if I am thinking bad about the piano, or the customer or whatever. Bad thoughts = bad tuning. >BUT after I tuned it, I played it. Even for a small piano, what a = >beautiful, sweet sound. Oh, the subtleties ...=20 That is the best part of tuning... getting to play on a freshly tuned piano! Alan, welcome to the list. Sincerely, David A. Vanderhoofven Joplin, MO P.S. I welcome any constructive criticism about this post. Please let me know if I am way off base here.
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