Weeeeell, Maybe we could just put you on probation for awhile. That might work. Actually I wouldn't want to hurt you. I'm really just a lovable little fuzz ball. Sort of like Rush Limbaugh. Carl, wouldn't hurt a fly, Meyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 1:55 PM Subject: Re: comparing temperaments > Yikes, > > I hadn't thought about that... > > Carl, old buddy, talk to me first, Ok? I'm sure we can work something out... > > Davy, look before he leaps, Ilvedson > > > ----- Original message ----------------------------------------> > From: Carl Meyer <cmpiano@attbi.com> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Received: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 12:51:19 -0700 > Subject: Re: comparing temperaments > > > >Hey! David, Maybe this could be a contract job. I live lots closer. > > >Carl the enforcer Meyer > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net> > >To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > >Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 12:25 PM > >Subject: Re: comparing temperaments > > > >> And in this corner, "wearing the darling blue trunks, weighing in at 90 pounds, > >> Billy, the whinner, Bremmer." "And in the red trunks, weighing in at 200 pounds, > >> Eddy, the mouth, Foote." > >> > >> "Break when I say and no hitting below the belt, well, from now on" > >> > >> Davy, did I write that? Ilvedson > >> > >> "Who needs a flame-suit when I live hundreds of miles away" > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original message ----------------------------------------> > >> From: Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net> > >> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > >> Received: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:31:27 -0500 > >> Subject: Re: comparing temperaments > >> > >> >Oh s***. Here we go again! > >> > >> >Avery > >> > >> >At 08:43 PM 08/31/02 -0400, you wrote: > >> >>Sheesh! I won't do Ed Foote's writing the honor of copying it. As usual, > >> >>the intent is to discredit and as usual, he knows absolutely nothing about > >> >>what he is writing. If Ed *could* tune the EBVT, which he couldn't, even > >> >>if his life depended on it, he'd know that all of what he wrote has no > >> >>foundation. > >> >> > >> >>I posted Jason Kanter's graph on my website because as a graph, I've never > >> >>seen better. It runs circles around the ones that Ed has done. While I > >> >>honestly do not understand why virtually none of the numbers guys can ever > >> >>get things really right, I appreciate their efforts. > >> >> > >> >>The EBVT is a true Well Tempered Tuning and does not have the kind of > >> >>imbalances which Jason graphed and Ed seized upon to try once again to > >> >>discredit what I've been doing for 10 years. > >> >> > >> >>The fact is that it has 4 pure 5ths, the same 4 pure 5ths that *any* > >> >>historically documented Well Tempered Tuning has. The other nearly pure > >> >>5ths are also right along the lines of what any Well Tempered Tuning would > >> >>have. *Anyone* can create a Well Tempered Tuning by tuning a chain of > >> >>pure 5ths from C about half the way through the cycle of 5ths, then temper > >> >>the rest of the 5ths so that they all will fit. It's as simple as that. > >> >> > >> >>But there are some people who just cannot tune by ear. They've just got > >> >>to go dialing in numbers on an ETD and hope that what comes out will sound > >> >>good. That's what Ed does and until my dying day, I promise to myself and > >> >>the world that I won't do it. I tune by *listening* to the piano and > >> >>sorting out the compromises I must make according to my own plan and sense > >> >>of what sounds good to my ear based on a lifetime of 50 years of interest > >> >>in, practice and performance of music. I do not depend upon a calculation > >> >>which I have no control over. > >> >> > >> >>What I manage to do with my EBVT is create a mild, Victorian style > >> >>temperament and still retain some of the properties of earlier > >> >>temperaments, namely 4 pure 5ths, which no other Victorian Temperament, > >> >>including the Moore does. This is accomplished by breaking the chain of > >> >>pure 5ths that earlier WT's have and which create extreme harshness, which > >> >>ultimately makes them unacceptable. Instead of having an unbroken chain > >> >>of pure 5ths, C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Gb(F#), I offer C-F-Bb and F# -C# -G#. The > >> >>5ths in between are tempered but less so than in ET. > >> >> > >> >>It follows all of the rules of Well Tempered Tuning and is in no way a > >> >>"sideways well" as Ed proclaims. Owen Jorgensen approved of my work when > >> >>I presented it to him 10 years ago and that alone, is good enough for > >> >>me. Dr. Herbert Anton Kellner, a well known temperament guru became aware > >> >>of my work and praised it, calling it "genius". He said that the Equal > >> >>Beating and Proportionate Beating found in my temperament, the sets of 3, > >> >>6, 8, 9 & 12 beats per second were in concert with the very pulse of humanity. > >> >> > >> >>Yes, all of the beat speeds are exact multiples of 1 beat per second. I > >> >>arrange all harmony in the piano to fall within these very regular and > >> >>orderly patterns. Yet Ed says that is not right for 18th & 19th Century > >> >>music. > >> >> > >> >>I'd rather listen to the opinion of a man who has been studying and > >> >>practicing this art since the 1930's than to a Johnny-come-lately who > >> >>first was inspired by these ideas when he attended the Convention in > >> >>Milwaukee (where the EBVT was first presented to PTG). And of course, Ed > >> >>condemns that event too as he did the 1/7 Comma Meantone at the 1995 > >> >>Convention. Soon thereafter however, he is *teaching* it and producing > >> >>CD's to promote it. Sure, I like Ed's CD's, except for the Chopin in > >> >>Reverse Well and the Mozart in Meantone but the comments of listeners are > >> >>certainly not unanimously full of praise. > >> >> > >> >>I'm not interested in trying to discover what the right "correction > >> >>figures" for the EBVT are because I know that even if they were figured > >> >>out, the octaves would still be wrong. I tune my octaves in a way which > >> >>Ed denounces as not making any sense at all but I'm still doing them that > >> >>way, have been for 20 years and always will. Sooner or later, Ed will be > >> >>*teaching* it. He'll find some other source which says the same thing and > >> >>proclaim it to be the bees knees of tuning and he'll still try to find a > >> >>way to say that what I do is wrong. > >> >> > >> >>So, others who want to try to figure out what those numbers should be are > >> >>encouraged to keep trying. It shouldn't be that hard. The EBVT is > >> >>constructed much like many other HT's. But what really makes me skeptical > >> >>is that if today, so many people who really want to find the right > >> >>numerical values can't, then how good are all those published sets of > >> >>numbers? Not that I dispute any particular one but really, I would never > >> >>want to even try to tune a piano that way, Ed's way. > >> >> > >> >>I'll say one thing without reservation. I can tune a better sounding > >> >>piano than Ed Foote can and I could have it half done by the time it would > >> >>take him to finish dialing in his numbers. > >> >> > >> >>Anybody want to give me a chance to prove it? > >> >> > >> >>Bill Bremmer RPT > >> >>Madison, Wisconsin > >> >><http://www.billbremmer.com/>Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . > >> >>c o m =- > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >
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