Yikes, I hadn't thought about that... Carl, old buddy, talk to me first, Ok? I'm sure we can work something out... Davy, look before he leaps, Ilvedson ----- Original message ----------------------------------------> From: Carl Meyer <cmpiano@attbi.com> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Received: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 12:51:19 -0700 Subject: Re: comparing temperaments >Hey! David, Maybe this could be a contract job. I live lots closer. >Carl the enforcer Meyer >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net> >To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 12:25 PM >Subject: Re: comparing temperaments >> And in this corner, "wearing the darling blue trunks, weighing in at 90 pounds, >> Billy, the whinner, Bremmer." "And in the red trunks, weighing in at 200 pounds, >> Eddy, the mouth, Foote." >> >> "Break when I say and no hitting below the belt, well, from now on" >> >> Davy, did I write that? Ilvedson >> >> "Who needs a flame-suit when I live hundreds of miles away" >> >> >> >> ----- Original message ----------------------------------------> >> From: Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net> >> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >> Received: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:31:27 -0500 >> Subject: Re: comparing temperaments >> >> >Oh s***. Here we go again! >> >> >Avery >> >> >At 08:43 PM 08/31/02 -0400, you wrote: >> >>Sheesh! I won't do Ed Foote's writing the honor of copying it. As usual, >> >>the intent is to discredit and as usual, he knows absolutely nothing about >> >>what he is writing. If Ed *could* tune the EBVT, which he couldn't, even >> >>if his life depended on it, he'd know that all of what he wrote has no >> >>foundation. >> >> >> >>I posted Jason Kanter's graph on my website because as a graph, I've never >> >>seen better. It runs circles around the ones that Ed has done. While I >> >>honestly do not understand why virtually none of the numbers guys can ever >> >>get things really right, I appreciate their efforts. >> >> >> >>The EBVT is a true Well Tempered Tuning and does not have the kind of >> >>imbalances which Jason graphed and Ed seized upon to try once again to >> >>discredit what I've been doing for 10 years. >> >> >> >>The fact is that it has 4 pure 5ths, the same 4 pure 5ths that *any* >> >>historically documented Well Tempered Tuning has. The other nearly pure >> >>5ths are also right along the lines of what any Well Tempered Tuning would >> >>have. *Anyone* can create a Well Tempered Tuning by tuning a chain of >> >>pure 5ths from C about half the way through the cycle of 5ths, then temper >> >>the rest of the 5ths so that they all will fit. It's as simple as that. >> >> >> >>But there are some people who just cannot tune by ear. They've just got >> >>to go dialing in numbers on an ETD and hope that what comes out will sound >> >>good. That's what Ed does and until my dying day, I promise to myself and >> >>the world that I won't do it. I tune by *listening* to the piano and >> >>sorting out the compromises I must make according to my own plan and sense >> >>of what sounds good to my ear based on a lifetime of 50 years of interest >> >>in, practice and performance of music. I do not depend upon a calculation >> >>which I have no control over. >> >> >> >>What I manage to do with my EBVT is create a mild, Victorian style >> >>temperament and still retain some of the properties of earlier >> >>temperaments, namely 4 pure 5ths, which no other Victorian Temperament, >> >>including the Moore does. This is accomplished by breaking the chain of >> >>pure 5ths that earlier WT's have and which create extreme harshness, which >> >>ultimately makes them unacceptable. Instead of having an unbroken chain >> >>of pure 5ths, C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Gb(F#), I offer C-F-Bb and F# -C# -G#. The >> >>5ths in between are tempered but less so than in ET. >> >> >> >>It follows all of the rules of Well Tempered Tuning and is in no way a >> >>"sideways well" as Ed proclaims. Owen Jorgensen approved of my work when >> >>I presented it to him 10 years ago and that alone, is good enough for >> >>me. Dr. Herbert Anton Kellner, a well known temperament guru became aware >> >>of my work and praised it, calling it "genius". He said that the Equal >> >>Beating and Proportionate Beating found in my temperament, the sets of 3, >> >>6, 8, 9 & 12 beats per second were in concert with the very pulse of humanity. >> >> >> >>Yes, all of the beat speeds are exact multiples of 1 beat per second. I >> >>arrange all harmony in the piano to fall within these very regular and >> >>orderly patterns. Yet Ed says that is not right for 18th & 19th Century >> >>music. >> >> >> >>I'd rather listen to the opinion of a man who has been studying and >> >>practicing this art since the 1930's than to a Johnny-come-lately who >> >>first was inspired by these ideas when he attended the Convention in >> >>Milwaukee (where the EBVT was first presented to PTG). And of course, Ed >> >>condemns that event too as he did the 1/7 Comma Meantone at the 1995 >> >>Convention. Soon thereafter however, he is *teaching* it and producing >> >>CD's to promote it. Sure, I like Ed's CD's, except for the Chopin in >> >>Reverse Well and the Mozart in Meantone but the comments of listeners are >> >>certainly not unanimously full of praise. >> >> >> >>I'm not interested in trying to discover what the right "correction >> >>figures" for the EBVT are because I know that even if they were figured >> >>out, the octaves would still be wrong. I tune my octaves in a way which >> >>Ed denounces as not making any sense at all but I'm still doing them that >> >>way, have been for 20 years and always will. Sooner or later, Ed will be >> >>*teaching* it. He'll find some other source which says the same thing and >> >>proclaim it to be the bees knees of tuning and he'll still try to find a >> >>way to say that what I do is wrong. >> >> >> >>So, others who want to try to figure out what those numbers should be are >> >>encouraged to keep trying. It shouldn't be that hard. The EBVT is >> >>constructed much like many other HT's. But what really makes me skeptical >> >>is that if today, so many people who really want to find the right >> >>numerical values can't, then how good are all those published sets of >> >>numbers? Not that I dispute any particular one but really, I would never >> >>want to even try to tune a piano that way, Ed's way. >> >> >> >>I'll say one thing without reservation. I can tune a better sounding >> >>piano than Ed Foote can and I could have it half done by the time it would >> >>take him to finish dialing in his numbers. >> >> >> >>Anybody want to give me a chance to prove it? >> >> >> >>Bill Bremmer RPT >> >>Madison, Wisconsin >> >><http://www.billbremmer.com/>Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . >> >>c o m =- >> >> >> >>
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