Fwd: 6:3 bass octaves---why?

[Erwinspiano@aol.com]

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In a message dated 11/28/2002 7:37:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, Erwinspiano 
writes:


> Subj:Re: 6:3 bass octaves---why? 
> Date:11/28/2002 7:37:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:Erwinspiano">Erwinspiano</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:mathstar@salemnet.com">mathstar@salemnet.com</A>
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/27/2002 9:53:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
> mathstar@salemnet.com writes:
> 
> 
> >> Subj:Re: 6:3 bass octaves---why? 
>> Date:11/27/2002 9:53:09 PM Pacific Standard Time
>> From:<A HREF="mailto:mathstar@salemnet.com">mathstar@salemnet.com</A>
>> To:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>
>> Sent from the Internet 
>> 
>>             Good post Alan. 
> 
>           Trained as an ear tuner by Dad this is what He taught as well but 
> 6-3 
> >> works well untill you get to the last few bichords at which time the 
>> octaves are getting closer to 8-4 octaves. I like a gradually flatter and 
>> flatter bass. Actually so does everybody else it's just that we don't 
>> think of it as stretching as we do in the treble. But that's what needs to 
>> happen.  Practically speaking the way I use 6-3 octaves is the lower I go 
>> the slower I allow the bottom notes beat rate to become. Listening to the 
>> beat in the octave and not letting it get to rolling excessively but 
>> pushing it as flat as I can stand it especially in the mono -chords. By 
>> doing this these notes will be more in tune when playing chords and 
>> melodies higher up and create a more musically  homogenous sound.
> 
>   To test this play some chords inoctave three and four and play the 
> corresponding musical bass notes or octaves including the lowest note 
> possible in the bass. Or play c- major chord and add c-1 after that. Then 
> futz with its tuning only against hte chord. This will tell you fast if you 
> need to tune them flatter(or not) to create a more melodic relationship. 
> This is a very effective little test with all pianos but especially shows 
> up short scaled bass.
>        Happy Thanksgiving   
>         Dale Erwin
>        The eyes of all wait upon thee o Lord and thou givest them meat in 
> due season. Tou openest thine hand and satisfys the desire of every living 
> Thing.   From thePsalms
> 
>   
> >> 
>> At a decent piano, tune it 4:2, play, listen. Same piano, tune it 6:3, 
>> play
>> listen.
>> 
>> The 6:3 is a tad more stretched, cumulative down to A0.
>> Most people like the bigger sounding base.
>> On most small pianos, the beat at the quint (Octave + 5th) is louder, more
>> pronounced, and more objectionable than a beat at the double octave (which
>> ends up about 2 bps in a 6:3 tuning).
>> 
>> With a 6:3 the 5ths get "almost pure" very quickly going down--you can
>> actually use 5ths as a bass tuning check unless and until the bass strings
>> themselves start getting noisy false beats ("longitudinal
>> inharmonicity"--work that into a party conversation, the blank stares are
>> fun)
>> 
>> The real test for me is that most smaller pianos just sound bigger. I've 
>> had
>> several clients comment on how much better their bass sounds than the way
>> previous tuners have left them. One client, a conservatory-trained concert
>> artist, has a very nice grand but also has a Wurlitzer console that she
>> teaches kids on. After I tuned the Wurly--not explaining how I tune the
>> bass--she played it and exclaimed: "Oh, it sounds like my grand!"
>> 
>> THAT's why I aim for 6:3 in most pianos.
>> 
>> Notice I say "aim for." Reblitz says "... in the bass, each octave has two
>> or more prominent beats of different speeds that occur simultaneously. If
>> you eliminate one beat, the other is offensive, so the place to tune the
>> string is between those beats ..." On a really poorly scaled piano, or
>> crummy little spinet, etc., that can be true so you just have to "even out
>> the growls" as the late, great Mr. Defebaugh said.
>> 
>> Also, I watch for smooth progressions (3rds, 6ths, 10ths) across the tenor
>> break and adjust that, where necessary. But generally my octaves are 6:3
>> 
>> 2:1 is just way to shallow for the bass. Experiment a little, you'll get
>> beats at the double, the double +5th, and some other hash.
>> 
>> 2:1 in the temperament is also two narrow--your inside intervals just 
>> won't
>> fit. Save the 2:1 for the high treble.
>> 
>> I don't have very many years of experience but I have read and 
>> experimented
>> quite a bit. Yet I will be delighted to hear comments on your question
>> and/or my answer from the long-time pro's out there.
>> 
>> My two pennies. Happy T'day, Everyone!
>> 
>> Alan Barnard
>> Grateful for Much in Salem, MO
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Tvak@aol.com>
>> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 10:52 PM
>> Subject: 6:3 bass octaves---why?
>> 
> 


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Subject: Re: 6:3 bass octaves---why?
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:37:53 EST
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