6:3 bass octaves---why?

[Tom Servinsky]

List,
I have to chime in on this one.  It's not a matter of subjectivity with
regards to what octave stretch to use,as it is a matter of being able to
(objectively)identify the predominant partials for each section of the piano
and work with what you have to work with.
The fact is that most pianos in the bass have an extremely strong 6:3 partial
( 5th and octave and a fifth). Choosing to ignore those partials and attempt
to tune at a 4:2 octave will make those strong partials out of tune. The same
goes for tuning in the temperament octave. Very seldom do octaves in the part
of the piano have a strong 6:3 partial but rather a strong 4:2 partial.
It goes back to the fundenmental rule of tuning... let the piano tell dictate
how the piano should be tuned. This applies to the initial temperament octave,
thier beat speeds,  and applying it throughout the entire piano.
Tom Servinsky, RPT
 
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:48:43 -0600 "Alan R. Barnard" <mathstar@salemnet.com>
wrote:

> At a decent piano, tune it 4:2, play, listen.
> Same piano, tune it 6:3, play
> listen.
> 
> The 6:3 is a tad more stretched, cumulative
> down to A0.
> Most people like the bigger sounding base.
> On most small pianos, the beat at the quint
> (Octave + 5th) is louder, more
> pronounced, and more objectionable than a beat
> at the double octave (which
> ends up about 2 bps in a 6:3 tuning).
> 
> With a 6:3 the 5ths get "almost pure" very
> quickly going down--you can
> actually use 5ths as a bass tuning check unless
> and until the bass strings
> themselves start getting noisy false beats
> ("longitudinal
> inharmonicity"--work that into a party
> conversation, the blank stares are
> fun)
> 
> The real test for me is that most smaller
> pianos just sound bigger. I've had
> several clients comment on how much better
> their bass sounds than the way
> previous tuners have left them. One client, a
> conservatory-trained concert
> artist, has a very nice grand but also has a
> Wurlitzer console that she
> teaches kids on. After I tuned the Wurly--not
> explaining how I tune the
> bass--she played it and exclaimed: "Oh, it
> sounds like my grand!"
> 
> THAT's why I aim for 6:3 in most pianos.
> 
> Notice I say "aim for." Reblitz says "... in
> the bass, each octave has two
> or more prominent beats of different speeds
> that occur simultaneously. If
> you eliminate one beat, the other is offensive,
> so the place to tune the
> string is between those beats ..." On a really
> poorly scaled piano, or
> crummy little spinet, etc., that can be true so
> you just have to "even out
> the growls" as the late, great Mr. Defebaugh
> said.
> 
> Also, I watch for smooth progressions (3rds,
> 6ths, 10ths) across the tenor
> break and adjust that, where necessary. But
> generally my octaves are 6:3
> 
> 2:1 is just way to shallow for the bass.
> Experiment a little, you'll get
> beats at the double, the double +5th, and some
> other hash.
> 
> 2:1 in the temperament is also two narrow--your
> inside intervals just won't
> fit. Save the 2:1 for the high treble.
> 
> I don't have very many years of experience but
> I have read and experimented
> quite a bit. Yet I will be delighted to hear
> comments on your question
> and/or my answer from the long-time pro's out
> there.
> 
> My two pennies. Happy T'day, Everyone!
> 
> Alan Barnard
> Grateful for Much in Salem, MO
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 10:52 PM
> Subject: 6:3 bass octaves---why?
> 
> 
> > OK.  I can tune a 6:3 octave in the bass. 
> But why?  Musically speaking,
> why
> > a 6:3 octave?  Why would we choose to make
> sure that THOSE two partials
> are
> > in tune?  Why wouldn't the single or double
> octave be more important in
> > musical terms?
> >
> > Musically speaking, why wouldn't the 2:1
> octave rule throughout?  I could
> > even see the musical rationale for a 4:2
> octave in the bass, making sure
> that
> > the the double octave is clean, but why make
> the octave + 5th be the
> > determining factor in that area of the piano?
> >
> > When I think about this as a musician, it
> doesn't add up to me.
> >
> > I do it.  But I don't know why...
> >
> > Straighten me out,
> >
> > Tom S
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > pianotech list info:
> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
> 
> _______________________________________________
> pianotech list info:
> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
>