Cordier temperament & tempered octaves

[Isaac OLEG SIMANOT]

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Dear Colleagues,

Just to say that I tuned a few pianos , verticals and grand's, with the Bill
Bremmer method of equal tempered octaves. Thanks to Mr Bremmer to put his
method on the Web

I liked a lot the kind of tone it allows, I've find it amazing how the
equality between twelve's and double octave is precise and easy to hear, and
I was surprised to see how accurate was the progression with this very basic
and simple control. (I was thinking that only thirds and tenths progression
can allow very precise tuning, and used the fifths mostly for the color
before that)

For me, it lend to a unison tone which is easy to obtain and blend well with
the tone of the octaves.

(Not so) Many old tuners in France use this kind of tuning approach.
Those trained in Cordier too, but sound is more harsh in CORDIER tuning BMO)

The sound obtained with this high strech is not indeed as if we where to
stretch a lot beginning with a "normal" tuning.
The opening of the octaves, if listened between 1 string low and 1 string
high, looks as an audible beat, but when the same is done with unisons, the
high partials blend absolutely in a very lively and colored sound.

I just can't explain why these kind of octave give me an unisons quality
different from what I obtain usually.
As  the correct balance  (between 12ths, double - & octave ) is a very well
focused point I was able to find the good stretch even while the low unison
was sounding (with pedal or with only 1 tuning mute on the top note )

I guess that some pianos will sound really more musical with this style of
stretch. I've listen to Renée Fleming warming  accompanied on a Boston grand
tuned as this this afternoon, and the voice blended particularly well with
the piano.

I was feeling that the singer was flowing along with the piano, much more
than if she were to have a more standard tuning. It gives an orchestral
dimension to the piano sound witch is very musical my impression.

I am not sure how to have a temperament highly stretched, while avoiding
really too fast thirds, which are not always acceptable.
In Cordier Temperament, the equal beating between minor third and major
third in the fifths ( as A-C C-E ) gives the fifths, the minor and major
chord a very strong quality, but without too much movement.

I strongly suggest you try this method if you did not yet, you will be
surprised at what you will find.

Too, you can try to tune the top note with the sustain pedal engaged, while
sounding the 12th and the double together. The sound and correct point is so
strong and perceptible that sometime I've been asking if it was not
damageable to  my ears, but in fact I think that it is just easy to do that
(no pain, no stress).

Comparison with the VT 100 proposed stretch is like "expanded style" with a
3 cents (on this last piano Boston) added at the temperament octave . The
fun is that you need to have an audible beat to be near the correct stretch,
then the beat disappears, and you tune musically. The other fun is that the
precision of your tuning is as good as with the best EDT, but without risk
of "ear closing" .

Please let me know what you find .

Regards

Isaac OLEG

Tuner - technician - concert service
PianoTech
19 rue Jules Ferry
94400 VITRY sur SEINE
FRANCE
tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98
fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90
cell: 06 60 42 58 77



  -----Message d'origine-----
  De : owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]De la part de
Billbrpt@AOL.COM
  Envoyé : vendredi 14 décembre 2001 04:29
  À : pianotech@ptg.org
  Objet : Re: Cordier temperament


  In a message dated 12/13/01 9:02:12 PM Central Standard Time,
mcpiano@globetrotter.net (Marcel Carey) writes:



    Double octave were about
    2bps wich I found disturbing. But, this is what he wanted. When checking
the
    tuning, it was too much stretch, but when he played the piano, it
sounded
    fine. So again, we should be careful to keep the goal in mind. We must
tune
    for music, not for tuning test
  .

  This is a very fine comment and observation, Marcel.  The "Tempered
Octaves" that I often speak of can approach your description here.  Even if
you usually or only tune ET, look up my article called "Tuning Tempered
Octaves" through the link in my new website at the bottom of its index page.

  I developed this method when I was still tuning ET.  If you use it to tune
ET, your octaves will be perfect on the PTG Exam except in the 7th octave
where they will score as too sharp but not so much that it would mean a
failing score.  It is essentially the same idea the Steve Fairchild RPT uses
although I did not understand this until many years after I had made the
idea part of my practice.

  If you make my technique part of your skills, you can tune octaves as
accurately and consistently as you would using an ETD.  It is only when I
use this idea with my EBVT that *some* of my double octaves beat slightly.
In ET, they are so slightly stretched that they will be neither disturbing
to you as you tune or musically.

  When Jim Coleman and Virgil Smith heard my octaves back in 1993, they were
impressed, interested and wanted to know how I did them.  It is really so
very easy that I jokingly call them "Mindless Octaves" because the technique
will give you such accuracy and consistency so easily that you cannot help
but be accurate regardless of how you may be feeling at the time.

  There are two other instances where I remember Jim Coleman saying
something very positive about this idea publicly:  "...he tunes *beautiful*
octaves..." (to a group of technicians) and as I was talking to Dr.
Sanderson, Jim was there also and had Dr. Sanderson take special note of
what I had to say.  Essentially, it is an *Equal Beating* compromise between
the Double Octave and the Octave and Fifth.

  Bill Bremmer RPT
  Madison, Wisconsin
  Click here: -=w w w . b i l l b r e m m e r . c o m =-

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