This is good start -- perhaps the rest of us can add to it in all seriousness. The fun some of us can imagine having when disposing a cheap/useless piano can be the subject of another thread. + Some additions below .... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 7:41 AM Subject: Re: Sagenhatt Well, I'm certainly not the authority on this topic, but I do run across this need often, and since no one else is going to give a serious answer (although I do find Jim's giving me quite a laugh!)............. Here goes: I don't have the original post, but the question was, how do you tell a high/good quality piano from a lesser one when inspecting a pianos for a piano-seeking client. Here are my thoughts, many are broad generalities and many exceptions can be found. In a vertical, check case panels. Pressboard is generally low quality, solid core better quality. + Check case dimensions -- the thinner, the cheaper. Also, check structural integrity by pushing and pulling at the side of the piano. Perhaps the piano flexes dramatically thereby throwing off the tuning something fierce. It may even be possible to pull a side panel clear off or at least dislodge the end of the keybed without too much effort. In spinet, clip-on type drop wires (??term??) (on back of keys) usually indicate poor quality. Better quality have action connection to keys that have action centers and a capstan. Any piano, look for hammer alignment and quality/consistency of boring. On cheap pianos you will often find hammers all over the place. + Cheap pianos sometimes have hammers that are just plain too small. Sometimes they're not even in order. + Also look at the action -- it too may be misaligned and all over the place. Sometimes the action components will be splintery and rough-looking, sometimes great gobs of glue have oozed out and dried where it will. You really know it's cheap when you realize that true alignment will be impossible. + Feel the action. Move individual parts and watch how well they work together. Uneven, "uncomfortable" movement can indicate severely bent centerpins in an effort to "align" the action. Check the various screw adjustments -- do they work predictably or are they so loose and/or crooked that getting a working regulation will tax your patience? + Look for key warpage, or signs that the keys had been seriously warped. Keys can often be made to look acceptable at the playing end while the business end behind the fallboard may be all over the map. Also, check the bushings -- are they consistent? Will they wear evenly or does it look as if one side will wear prematurely? Pianos with hammer felt laying in bottom of piano are generally lower end pianos. Pianos "Made by American Craftsmen" are not good pianos. + Look closely for more tell-tale signs that these Americans worked for Aeolian. Don't forget that Americans have worked for other manufacturers and made first-class products (Charles Walter, current production of M&H for starters). Vertical pianos that say "Grand" on the fallboard are a definite NO-NO. I know some will disagree, but I find Kimball pianos consistently undesirable. Tuning pin coils. If the wire extends out through the other end of the becket, it is likely a low quality piano. Also tuning pin height uniformity, angle uniformity, and coil tightness are good indicators - more uniform, better quality. + Sometimes these pianos are strung by machine, in which case the "locked tail" (or whatever marketing departments care to call them) are consistent. But sometimes these excess lengths are comically irregular. Also, look for bluing solution to be spilled all over the coil as well as the tuning pin itself. On vertical, weighted keys. Cheaper pianos will have unweighted keys. Vertical, check out keybed robustness. Put your knee under the keybed and lift up with leg. On newer pianos especially, you will see the keybed flex significantly on lower end pianos. + Careful -- you might even dislodge the keybed that way. All pianos, (grands of modest size) three section scales are generally lower end pianos (more so on grands). Four section pianos are generally better quality (in a vertical, definitely high quality). Vertical, if there are three pedals and only two trapwork levers - watch out! A cheap piano mfg. is trying to pull the wool over the consumer's eyes! All pianos - look at the framing on rear (vertical)/bottom (grand) of piano. No framing, definitely low-end piano. Generally the more and more robust framing will be found in higher-end pianos. + Check for beams under a grand. Some smaller grands have no beams to get in the way of methods of ascertaining soundboard crown. Check the ribs -- The wider the spacing between ribs, the cheaper the piano. Vertically laminated long bridges are generally only found on better pianos. Verticals, lower end pianos often do not have the hitch-pin side of the bridge notched, better pianos will have both sides of long bridge notched. I have never seen an un-notched bridge in a grand - even really bad grands. + Check the notching itself. Sometimes the notching on the hitchpin side of the bridge is for decorative purposes only. + Check for downbearing. There was a thread awhile back concerning a cheapo grand that was found to have to downbearing in the middle treble, wasn't there? Pianos wear out with age. In general, when someone is shopping for a used piano, a newer piano will always be better than an older piano. Even a 10-year-old medium-low quality piano that is in good shape will be a much better piano to play than a decent original quality piano from the 1950s or older. However, an older piano that is well preserved will often be the better piano than the newer cheapie. I just un-stuck a 1938 Baldwin Acrosonic spinet (remarkably well-preserved) action for some local folks that just got married and they have that piano and a 20 year old Kimball console. I told them that if the pianos are to be played as-is, the Kimball is better hands down because the Baldwin action is real slow. But if I can free-up the Baldwin at low cost, the Baldwin will make for a much nicer piano. They told me to take the action to my shop and hit it with alcohol/water. It worked perfect. I believe they will be playing the Baldwin and selling the Kimball. Well, there's a few things to look at while inspecting a piano. Remember, these are generalities. Many exceptions to these guidelines can be found. The original poster mentioned bridges having notches in them often indicating a lower-end piano. This is often true, but older good pianos will sometimes have a notch. I own a 1900 Bechstein grand that has the plate strut between the high treble and the treble sections going through a shallow notch in the bridge. One thing I will say about a notch in the bridge: if it is a deep notch and there is no additional support found on the back of the soundboard at the notch location, it likely indicates low quality - if there is a piece of maple attached to the rear of the soundboard to add support to the notch area, it is likely a pretty decent piano. I can only assume having the notch allows for easier engineering of the plate. If you have to get that strut up another half-inch or so, I'm quite sure you'll have to put twice as much metal into the strut (I'm no engineer - I'm just guessing). On my Bechstein, the strut only goes at most 1/8" into the bridge. I just wonder if I could not slide by with grinding a quarter inch off the strut to get clearance and avoid cutting the new bridge. Then again, I hear a lot about old Bechstein plates cracking....... Well, there's my 457 cents worth. Terry Farrell Z! Reinhardt RPT Ann Arbor MI diskladame@provide.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <JIMRPT@AOL.COM> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Sagenhatt > > In a message dated 26/02/02 9:42:39 PM, Tvak@AOL.COM writes: > > << But what other tell-tale cost-cutting clues might there be? >> > > Tom; > Having only two pedals is not needfully a sign of lower quality in a given > instrument as some countries 'standard' pianos are equipped with only two > pedals and 'custom' there dictates this. However a dead give away for a > lower quality piano is the existence of pre-installed trebuchet brackets... > :-^) > Jim Bryant (FL) >
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