[ctuner] Brahms & Well Temperament

[Richard Moody]

----- Original Message -----
From: <A440A@aol.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ctuner] Brahms & Well Temperament


>    Mr. Good's preference of a particular tuning for Brahms isn't
a >reflection  on any exact temperament as much as it is of his
personal >aesthetic sense of harmony.

Sounds good but what are you really saying?  Edwin Good liked a
"well" (which he didn't specify) , but stated he didn't like a
"very competent ET"  Sounds like he liked an exact temperament
that wasn't ET, because he stated his tuner came back and
"restored its rich lively tone."  So does "his personal aesthetic
sense of harmony" have nothing to do with "any exact temperament"
?  Don't tell that to Mr Good's tuner who tunes exactly every
time.

    The arguments that temperament influenced music as far as
history is concerned is coming to a rapid close.  After each
tuning scheme is finally translated, it is seen by tuners,
musicians, musicologists, and music historians, that temperament
doesn't really matter unless it produces wolves.  When the so
called Wells are put up against ET no one can tell the difference.
Now we hear that Edwin Good says he can.  So if he can demonstrate
he can tell the difference between an ET and the Well he prefers,
I will gladly learn to tune the well he prefers because all
musicians would want to hear a "rich lively tone" in their freshly
tuned pianos.


>Since a pianist can, in a highly tempered key, play either
> expressively or harshly, one's preference may not suit another.
Maybe
> changing the instrument's voicing would cause him to switch his
preferred > tuning,

Good, I will voice it then and tune in ET.



>or he could possibly think another temperament would sound best
for
> someone else's playing.

?? .. ??  .. And I suppose pay for it.... ??


>     Simply switching temperaments doesn't automatically "color"
the music >to  its optimum.

Ah the myth of "color" caused by temperament.   Hmmm  looks like
you are now saying it (temperament) doesn't color
music.............



> The pianist has to do the actual creation of musical
> sensations, and they all do it differently. in fact, I think the
musicians'
> interpretation makes a bigger difference in the music's impact
that any
> difference between the typical  Victorian tunings.

We are starting to agree.   What is the big deal between the
"typical Victorian tunings"  (which was never practiced, as
research is revealing)  vs  a sloppy ET?





>And I really like some of
> those temperaments!
>
>
> Ed Foote RPT ]

The trouble is, "some of those temperaments" were never the same,
just as you say ET was never consistent before the 3rds checks.
When you tune by ear according to the
historical directions (without relaying on modern tests) you may
be surprised at how different each
tuning is, but yet is still musically viable and pleasant even.
   The modern machines with theoretical offsets will
give a consistent temperament, but compare that with results from
the original directions that guided the ear.  I think you will
find, the aural tunings will give much more musical pleasure,
especially the ET of Claude Montal of 1836.     ---rm