> If you want a real treat, get Ed for his two period class on HT's. One of > the best classes I've seen. > One thing for sure, that all agreed upon, HT's have a lot of beautiful key > colour changes. > > Now that will cost you 2 beers. > > Regards Roger. Yeah, but you owe me a voicing needle.... ; ) Yes I attended Ed's class in Reno. And had the privilege of sitting beside one of the best of tuners. I would like to see his comments posted but he is more circumspect than I. I guess that comes from maturity. I tried as hard as I could but couldn't hear the "color" or if I did it sounded like a tuning issue. ET brainwashed? What difference? Its kind of like looking for a satellite on a starry night. Pretty soon they are all moving. I am not saying because I can't hear it nobody else can either. It might be something like "tone deaf". I am not "tone deaf" but I might be "color deaf". If so perhaps you or other color enthusiasts can help me out. Listen to 4 different recordings and tell me which has color and which doesn't. We can go one further... listen to 4 recordings of the same piece. Or you supply 4 and I supply 4. We listen to them blindfolded. You tell me which have color. Or we throw 8 into a pile and blindfolded pick out 4. Then listen and then tell which is ET and which has "color". If you can do this two out of 3 times I will buy the house two rounds. I wonder if someone can offer mp3 samples (legally of course) as tests? ---ric ----- Original Message ----- From: Baldwin Yamaha Piano Centre <baldwin@mta-01.sk.sympatico.ca> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: Re: May the 4ths be with you > Hi Ric, > I am starting to come to the conclusion that there is very > little key colour in ET. The historical reference's to key colour was given > in an era where and when clean ET was not available, in practice. The side > by side comparisons that I have done at the university, and with teacher > groups seems to support this. > Having said this, it's amazing how a good musician will change their > technique to translate the composers intent in musical terms. This I think > gives an illusion of key colour change. > How much does frequency have to do with the perception of colour change? I > don't know. > Ed Foote was our feature clinician at this years, CAPT national convention, > and did a fantastic job, with the aid of a good pianist in bringing this > topic to the fore. I think there was as many opinions as there were > attendee's. Ed, if you are reading, I know 2 different techs that are > experimenting with HT's since your lecture. Great Job. > If you want a real treat, get Ed for his two period class on HT's. One of > the best classes I've seen. > One thing for sure, that all agreed upon, HT's have a lot of beautiful key > colour changes. > > Now that will cost you 2 beers. > > Regards Roger. > > > > At 09:20 PM 8/24/02 +0200, you wrote: > >Richard Moody wrote: > > > > > > If you tune this same range such that the 6:3 are held beatless, > > > > or at 0.5bps as they start out in the example above, then you'd > > > hold > > > > the 8:4 up a while longer... this would allow for better matching > > > of > > > > those triple octaves and would represent quite a stretch. Though > > > the > > > > 4:2's and 2:1's would probably beat obnoxiously. > > > > > > Maybe try a different machine, I don't know what to say----with > > > beats like that it seems there is a lot of room for improvement. > > > >Ric, this wasnt a machine tuning. It was simply calculated frequencies > >using the inharmonicity equation with measured (and published) > >inharmonicity constants for a A3, A4, A5, A6. The numbers are what > >they are. Unless there is something wrong with the inharmonicity > >formula, I dont see how they can come out any different. Seems pretty > >usuall to me tho... Tuning A3 / A4 as pure 2:1 octave types is going > >to result in some movement up the ladders, especially when you try and > >match A5's partial ladder to that. > > > >The two graphs tho were from a tuning done by Dr. Sanderson for an > >article he wrote way back when. Grin.. he termed the tuning a "well > >tuned piano". > > > > > > > > >. We do manage to create a tuning > > > > that is ET in more ways then not, and the fact that we kill all > > > key color is good evidence of that. > > > > > > Speak for yourself on "we kill all key color". I believe that is > > > the most specious sentiment in the history of music especially > > > when applied to temperament. It is a musician's thing, if they want > > > to > > > talk to piano tuners about it I am all ears, but ain't holding my > > > breath. > > > >Well, I will be the first to enjoy discussion about key colour in ET. > >But that being said the kind of key color found in HT is taken out of > >the equation in a well executed ET. I mean thats kind of the whole > >point of ET.. isnt it ??? For example... all major 3rds at 13.7 cents > >apart (I think thats the right number ... Ed ?? ) > > > >I certainly like very much of the rest of your discussion on key > >colour Ric, and I have enjoyed your thoughts on the matter every time > >they come up. but I think personally we have to admit that there is at > >least a major type of key colour found in HT's that is not in ET. But > >perhaps I am wrong in this. In any case It would be interesting to see > >how well tuners and musicians alike could identify these effects AFTER > >having a good deal of ear training to reaquaint our ears to these > >things. > > > >I am personally not so swayed by aural comparison tests we hear talk > >about today as to what conclusions we can draw from them.... that is > >other then to conclude that the musical ear today is almost frightenly > >ignorant of our rich and colorfull temperament past. I have conducted > >a few such experiments myself and I find that those who know what they > >are listening for (of which there seem to be sparse few of) know right > >off what they are hearing.... and those that dont remind me much of > >that first day of tuning school where that "old guy" was trying to get > >me to hear the beats. > > > >Many thanks for your interesting thoughts. > > > >Cheers ! > > > >-- > >Richard Brekne > >RPT, N.P.T.F. > >UiB, Bergen, Norway > >mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no > >http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html > > Roger > >
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