David, Your welcome. Tom Servinsky,RPT ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net> To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 12:17 AM Subject: Re: more on this temperament thing... > Thanks Tom...very interesting! > > David I. > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 10/19/01 at 10:29 PM Tom Servinsky wrote: > > >David, > >The tuning of wind and string instruments is completely "just" tuning. > >ET or HT temperament does not come into play at all. "Just" tuning is > >referred to the tuning of absolutely pure intervals. > > Obviously most of these instruments are capable of playing only one note > >at > >time so their tuning responsibilities have several criteria to meet: > >Most orchestral instruments must be put into good relative tune by the > >player. That is, they must have a good semblance to concert A440 through > >out > >the instrument in all octaves. The problem is all orchestral instruments > >are inherently relatively out of tune within themselves, so a good player > >must thoroughly understand his/her instrument and no where the trouble > >spots > >are. > >Orchestral players must all have the ability to react and adjust their > >tuning to be in tune with other instruments playing within that chord. > >Absolutely pure octaves, 5ths,4ths, and even 3rds must be dead on clean. > >So if the melody line is being played by an instrument which has a note > >which tends to be sharp, then the other instruments playing within that > >chord must adjust up or down to "just" tune to make that interval > >absolutely > >pure. > >The interesting aspect of playing in an orchestra is the pitch is > >constantly > >changing to correct and adjust with whatever is being played. Good case > in > >point, take a oboe player who basically plays very well in tune but has a > >middle G which tends to play sharp. Good orchestras will adjust to that > >sharpness in a spilt second to "just" tune that particular sequence than > >return back to the A440 pitch center. > >So to answer your question, no... temperament does not play into wind and > >string instruments tuning. > >Again, as stated earlier, it's amazing that the orchestral tuning and the > >tuning of a piano, be it ET or HT with all the complexities they require, > >still exist and astound audiences as well as they have done. > >Tom Servinsky,RPT > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net> > >To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> > >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:54 PM > >Subject: Re: more on this temperament thing... > > > > > >> Ron, > >> > >> Of course some pianists are going to like HT. I have talked with one > >great > >> jazz pianist and he hated HT, absolutely hated it. I don't believe for > >> second that the majority would ever take HT over ET on a regular basis. > >> Question: Do other instruments have to be set up for HT? What is the > >> tuning on a saxophone for instance? Is tuned to some sort of a ET? > >> Obviously pitch can be altered as playing somewhat...how much? > >> > >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >> > >> On 10/19/01 at 7:18 PM Ron Koval wrote: > >> > >> >In response to those that have talked about playing music that is not > in > >> >the > >> >"right" keys for alternate temperaments, I'd like to share a little > >story. > >> > > >> >I work at a performing arts high school, where I freely experiment on > >the > >> >faculty. A few years ago, a new faculty member came that is a jazz > >> >pianist. > >> > This coincided with my interest in tuning alternate temperaments, so > I > >> >set > >> >on his piano many different HTs. At that time I used the mind-set of > >> >making > >> >the thirds at the top of the circle of fifths sound BETTER than those > at > >> >the > >> >bottom. > >> > > >> >An ****AHAAAA**** moment with this faculty member forced me to rethink > >my > >> >'tuner's' mindset. I had recently retuned his piano and he showed up > at > >> >lunch and said, "wow, what did you do to my piano? I played this chord > >> >and > >> >just had to let it ring, it sounded so great!" > >> > > >> >Being in the tuner's mindset, I thought to myself, "He must have liked > >the > >> > >> >C,G, or F chord, with the real smooth thirds." Imagine my surprise > when > >> >he > >> >said it was a Db arpeggio from the middle to the top; over a B, F#, and > >an > >> >A > >> >in the bass. > >> > > >> >*******AHAAAAAAA******** What an alternate temperament gives a > composer > >> >or > >> >a pianist is like a painter's pallette; more tone color to play with. > >> >Blue > >> >isn't better or worse than red, it's just different. Likewise, C isn't > >> >better than F#, it's just different. In the hands of an accomplished > >> >composer, or performer, alternate temperaments enhance the pallette of > >> >sound > >> >available through modulation. > >> > > >> >something to chew on this weekend! > >> > > >> >Ron Koval > >> > > >> >Chicagoland > >> > > >> >_________________________________________________________________ > >> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >> > >> > >> > > >
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