key leveling -- crown?

[Farrell]

I've been doing all my key leveling on the bench also Carl - but with mixed
results. I thinks most of it depends on how flat the keybed is. But now I've
got a 1970s G.Steck Aeolian grand keyboard on my bench that I am regulating
& key leveling.

I bedded the keybed real good in piano before bringing to shop. Re-check
bedding on regulating table - pretty good - presumably piano must have flat
keybed (my regulating table is dead-on-flat). Remove stack, remove black
keys. Hmmmmmmm, bedding not so good now, seems center rail has risen up a
bit - reset glide bolts. Set my two end keys at 2-1/2 inch height, level
white keys. Remove all white keys except for couple on end and several here
and there to observe white key/black key height relationship, install all
black keys. Put level stick on WHITE keys and Wowha - all white keys are now
low - like in the 0.025" range. Check center rail - center rail is a tad off
regulating table. OK, so apparently the center rail flexes up and down, and
removing the white keys allows the center rail to go up a tad. But why then
would the white keys go down - they should go up.

But that is not the point. The point is clearly leveling keys is best in
piano - but I just love the bench. What about a dummy fake stack thingee
that you can place varying amounts of weight on to simulate the fully loaded
keybed. This would at least eliminate the problem of any keyframe flexing on
the bench. You would still have potential trouble with warped keybeds, but
this might help. Wadddayathink????

Terry Farrell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Meyer" <cmpiano@home.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: key leveling -- crown?



----- Original Message -----
From: "Isaac OLEG SIMANOT" <oleg-i@wanadoo.fr>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: key leveling -- crown?


> Not only Steinway consider good new keyboard leveling will show a little
> arch in the middle.
> Klaus Schimmel does too, so Seiler, so other German makers, and their key
> bed is not arched.
>

Thanks Isaac,  I didn't know that.  Glad to hear that  me and
Steinway aren't the only dumb Germans around.

So how is it that those who arch their key level and not the bed compensate
for the shorter penetration of the key pin into the mortise?  Do they arch
the height of the key pins or make the key thicker?



> In fact on Steinway  we may use and arched rule because of the arched
keyed
> only, they don't pretend it is for the future wear of the balance
bushings,
> that is other makes that pretend (?) that.
> And may be is it only for visual effect !

If you use an arched rule to level the keys on a flat bench, you will have a
double arch when you put the action back in the piano.  A Steinway rep told
me "you can't level the keys outside the piano, It's not accurate enough."
Well, DUHHH!

Unless it's just a touch up, I always level keys on the bench.  That's the
only efficient way to do it.  I remove the stack, clamp the frame to the
bench, and use weights on the back checks.  Of course touch up may be
required after the stack is reinstalled and the action put back in the
piano.

I try my best to simplify my life but it seems there are those that keep
wanting to complicate it.  Oh, Well!!

Regards

Carl Meyer  Assoc. PTG
Santa Clara, California
cmpiano@home.com



> Regards.
>
> Isaac OLEG
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]De la part
> > de Carl Meyer
> > Envoyé : vendredi 16 novembre 2001 21:07
> > À : pianotech@ptg.org
> > Objet : Re: key levelling -- crown?
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, Dick , it was Steinway that did that.  However it was done
> > to make the
> > key level line follow the crown in the keybed, which was put in to
ensure
> > full contact (spring loaded) of the action frame to the bed.
> >
> > Had it been to compensate for felt compression, wouldn't it be
appropriate
> > to have a schedule of releveling according to age or mileage?  Maybe
1/16
> > initially, then after 50000 songs we relevel to 1/32.  Then after
another
> > 50000 songs to1/64?  Now, if the key frame is refelted we must start the
> > schedule all over again.  Damm!!! nobody told me that they'd refelted
this
> > keybed!!
> >
> > I've been trying to kill this legend for several years now.  It's hard
> > because at first glance it seems so "impressive" so "logical" so
> > "sophisticated" and it was of course Steinway that did it.  Was it
really
> > necessary to crown both the bed and the key frame or would it have been
> > sufficient to but more crown in the key frame?  Does Steinway
> > have a patent
> > on that?  I doubt it.  Does any other company use that technique?  I
don't
> > know of any.
> >
> > If you haven't guessed yet, I think crowning the key bed is a
> > dumb idea.  It
> > was a complicated, expensive, confusing and just silly solution to a non
> > existent problem.
> >
> > Maybe they would rather we say bad things about them than to say
> > good things
> > about some other brand.  Politicians always say "Say anything you
> > want about
> > me, just don't misspell my name".
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Carl Meyer  Assoc. PTG
> > Santa Clara, California
> > cmpiano@home.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dick Beaton" <rbeaton@initco.net>
> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: key levelling -- crown?
> >
> >
> > > All...
> > > I recall the reason for doing this is that the middle of the piano
gets
> > > played more than the ends. In time it will even itself out as the felt
> > > center rail punchings flatten out more.  As I recall, it was
> > Steinway that
> > > did this.
> > > Dick RPT MT
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Charles Neuman <piano@charlesneuman.net>
> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:00 AM
> > > Subject: key levelling -- crown?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>