Tuned front duplexes

[Phillip L Ford]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 22:47:55   
 Delwin D Fandrich wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Phillip L Ford" <fordpiano@lycos.com>
>To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>Sent: November 08, 2001 12:00 AM
>Subject: Re: Tuned front duplexes
>
>
>
>Thanks, Phil, for bringing this up. I've been kind of pondering the question
>this afternoon and found myself increasingly bothered by this whole issue.
>Specifically, the idea that the piano must 'project' out to fill an
>auditorium way bigger than it was ever intended to accommodate and filled
>with way more people than can comfortably hear and enjoy the performance
>regardless of what that 'projection' does to the musicality of the
>instrument. Perhaps it's time to put a Wal-Mart keyboard up there with a
>gazigawatt amplifier and umpteen dozen speakers and be done with it. Surely
>it wouldn't sound much worse than some of the poor pianos that have been
>stretched way beyond their limits.

-------------
Agreed.  And some impresarios seem to have already implemented this.
There are a couple of small venues in the Bay Area that feel that they
need to amplify acoustic instruments.  The result is appalling to me.  Perhaps
they feel that people have become so used to loud, poor quality sounds that
they now expect them.
------------
>
>
>>
>> What constitutes 'projection' is an interesting question for which I don't
>> really have an answer, even though I'm the one who cavalierly tossed out
>> the term.  If pressed I guess I would say tonal content that allows the
>piano
>> to be heard over the output of an orchestra or a bit of extra power or
>volume
>> that allows the piano to be heard further back in a large hall (that
>definition
>> seems sufficiently nebulous).  In any event I think most of us would agree
>> that we're talking about something that only applies to a large hall and
>this
>> situation represents a tiny fraction of the situations in which pianos are
>> used.  So the question of whether or not to used a tuned duplex would
>> really only apply to a concert piano.  For other pianos, why torture the
>> pianist in order to get a little more 'projection'.
>
>Well, you're assuming that this tuned-duplex system actually does improve
>that mystical 'projection.' I'm unconvinced. It seems to me--and I've not
>done any tests at all to confirm my ideas about this--that 'projection'
>depends on a rather percussive attack sound and, while that can be aided by
>a precisely tuned duplex, it is more a function of a very hard and/or dense
>hammer. But, as you say, why torture the pianist in order to get a little
>more 'projection.' It always comes at the expense of sustain and dynamic
>range, specifically at the bottom end. The piano loses the softness and
>warmth of pianissimo. It becomes simply loud and less loud.
---------------
Perhaps I expressed myself badly.  I'm also unconvinced.  But I conceed
that it's a possibility.  I don't think it would be that hard to do some tests
to establish whether or not this mystical projection enhancement does in
fact occur.  If it doesn't, then the obvious path for the designer, in my
opinion, would be to eliminate tuned front duplexes altogether, even in
concert pianos.  If there is a projection enhancement, then the designer
must make a choice about projection versus tone quality and the pianist's
personal experience during the performance.  I would certainly advocate
for beatiful tone and dynamic range over projection.  But if the designer
prefers projection then at least he would know that the option is open to him,
at a cost.
--------------
>
>
>>
>> As to whether the
>> performer should have the worst seat in the house, that's another
>interesting
>> question.  Since he is there being paid to do a job and to perform
>> for his 'customers' then if a design changes makes things better for the
>audience
>> and worse for the pianist should it be incorporated?  Maybe.
>
>Then why not simply install a PianoDisk and be done with it. I don't go to
>concerts to hear a mechanical performance. I go to see and hear a real live
>human, one with emotions and a passion for the music. And, hopefully, some
>of that passion will come across during the performance. I don't see how a
>performer can get too excited about a performance when the piano sounds like
>a tin can and we tell him/her that this is to be expected because the piano
>must 'project.'
>
>But then, I find I don't go to very many concerts these days that are held
>in large auditoriums. Increasingly, I find them dead and boring and
>frustrating. On the other hand, we furnish a piano for a small recital room
>that holds about 50 to 65 people where I've enjoyed some of the most
>exciting performances in my experience. While the performers may not be
>World Class Pianists by most traditional definitions they are real people
>who are in love with their music and passionate about their performances.
>
>
I feel the same way.  I was really just playing devil's advocate here.  I rarely
go to concerts in large halls any more because I usually don't enjoy the
experience and it does seem as if many of the concerts are given with
the idea that the audiences want note perfect, recording like performances.
I'd rather just buy a CD and listen in the comfort of my own living room.
Many of the concerts would come off just as well if they did use a PianoDisk.
I find that most of my real musical 'experiences' occur in small halls, even if
the artists don't have the reputation of the artists you can see in large
halls (although often they are surprisingly good).  So I usually will only go
to a  large hall when there is an artist that I specifically want to hear, and
can only hear in a large hall.
>>
>> I think we already expect them to make some accommodations, such as
>> limiting dynamic range on the low end so that the sound will 'project'
>into
>> a large hall and to use a piano that is perhaps overpowered in, or biased
>> towards, the bass end and perhaps has a less responsive action than a
>> smaller piano.  If they also have to put up with a little noise perhaps
>that
>> comes with the territory.
>
>And then we wonder why their performances are sometimes mechanical. And it's
>the main reason why I no longer worry about achieving a high level of
>'power' in a given piano. Power will take care of itself. I'm much more
>concerned with the dynamic range and the bottom end performance.
>
>
-----------------
Yes.  If we want the artist to give us an inspired performance, then we
have to provide the tools and the environment to inspire him.  I don't think
we're very often doing that now.  We also have to give him the freedom
to take chances, which means an occasional misstep.  Some wrong notes
are going to occur and some attempts at looking at things and playing them
in a new or fresh way may turn out not to work.  That's part of being there
live.  That's part of being alive.
-----------------
>>
>> I think we have created an untenable situation with a concert hall that
>> holds thousands of people.  It's pretty hard to have an intimate musical
>> experience with an artist when he's seated several hundred feet away.
>> If we didn't insist on having recitals and concerts in spaces the size of
>> football fields we wouldn't need to design pianos to fill them up.
>
>I think you're right. I wonder just what the optimum size for an auditorium
>is considering the realistic performance potential of the modern piano. By
>that I mean one that is not stretched beyond its musical limits simply for
>the sake of 'projection.' I would guess one seating around 500 to 750. But,
>again, I've done no definitive tests on this. Just some observations.
>
>Del
>
That's an interesting question.  500-750 sounds reasonable.  The halls that
I most like to hear piano performances in I would say must hold in the
200 - 500 range.  This brings up another topic.  If I were choosing any
piano that I wanted and didn't have to worry about filling up a large hall
I would not choose a 9 ft piano.  My favorite pianos tend to be in the
6 1/2 ft to 7 1/2 ft range.  A small hall also makes this a possibility.  I've
never really talked to pianists about this and I wonder if there are some
who share this view.  I do know there are many pianists who believe that
because they are 'concert artists' then it is beneath their dignity to use
anything but a 'concert grand' even if it might be inappropriate for the
venue.  It amazes me when I go to a vocal recital in a small hall and there
is a 9 ft piano with the lid down on the smallest stick and a huge insulated
blanket all around the bottom of the piano in an attempt to quite it down.
I think, what is this piano doing here?  It would be refreshing to see some
pianists willing to try some alternatives.

Phil
>


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