Oops?

[Farrell]

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Oops, sorry. I see the confusion now. My post was in response to the =
post of David Ilvedson.
 =20
Terry Farrell
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Warren Fisher=20
  To: pianotech@ptg.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:37 AM
  Subject: Re: Oops?


  Terry,=20
  Who was this addressed to?=20

  Warren=20

  Farrell wrote:=20

    It is hard to believe you end up with a piano at targeted pitch. =
Your description appears to defy laws of physics. Consider the top two =
of four sections on the grand. If the whole piano was 100 cents flat, =
starting at A0, by the time you get to the upper treble those notes will =
be 120 or more cents flat. Raise them to targeted pitch, and they will =
fall a good 33%, or 40 cents by the time you finish your first pass. =
Treble now 40 cents flat. Start second pass targeting standard pitch, no =
overpull. Treble will be at least another 10 cents flat by the time you =
get there, so it will be 50 cents flat. Raise treble to standard pitch, =
and they will fall a good 33%, or 17 cents or so. The treble is now 17 =
cents flat after the second pitch-raise pass. Now you start your tuning =
pass with the treble 17 cents flat? Tenor will likely be in the 10-cent =
flat area. If, on the tuning and final pass you do not add any overpull, =
you will still end up at least 3 cents flat in tenor and somewhere =
between 5 and 10 cents flat in treble. I have yet to see a piano that =
varies significantly from the above description. Am I missing something? =
"......am I concerned about the quality or stability of the tuning?" =
Hmmmmm. Why do you not use any overpull to get the piano to pitch? Terry =
Farrell ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: David Ilvedson
      To: pianotech
      Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:23 AM
      Subject: Re: Oops?
       I am in the minority, but I don't raise above pitch at all...If =
-100 cents, I take a my FAC readings with those notes at correct pitch =
then bring each string up to a correct pitch as per SAT from A0 to =
C8...if the tenor isn't as flat as the rest of the piano it doesn't get =
raised any higher than any other part of the piano.  So when I go =
through it a second time it is about 10 to 15 cents flat (I don't really =
care where...the piano decides that but it isn't anywhere near 30 cents =
flat!) and I go through it again to pitch.  The bass is now reasonably =
stable and a quick 3rd time through the tenor/treble and I'm done with =
the initial tuning...see ya in 3 to 6 months...am I concerned about the =
quality or stability of the tuning?  I don't think so...I didn't let it =
go for 15 years...it's not my problem...I don't use a temp strip, just =
mutes and tuning unisons as I go... David I. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR =
***********=20
      On 11/5/01 at 7:35 PM Billbrpt@AOL.COM wrote:=20

        In a message dated 11/5/01 6:16:31 PM Central Standard Time, =
davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David Love) writes:=20
         =20
          Also, so that those who are not familiar with your style of =
tuning are not mislead, the standard pitch raise function should get the =
treble sharp enough if you measure/reset frequently on the way up and if =
you are using standard stretching.  I recall that you mentioned that in =
your tempered octaves tuning you are +75 cents by the time you get to =
C8.  Those tuning with normal stretch are more likely to reach only +40. =
 For your system that would require additional stretch going up.  For =
others, they would end up considerably sharp of the target and have to =
do a lowering before a fine tuning.
        Yes, but bear in mind that most of the time I use a more =
conventional amount of stretch.  The triple octave/double octave and =
fifth comparison is only for when I wan the absolute maximum and =
justifiable amount.=20

        Once I get into the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are =
off.  But let's take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange.  =
That's 100%.  Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch.  The =
high treble may easily be 150% flat.  Now add 30 cents for the high =
treble for the usual amount of stretch.  We're up to 180% now, which =
theoretically would take +60 cents overpull.  Yipes!=20

        Maybe on a new or newly strung piano but even then, I'd prefer =
to work my way up.  The danger of breaking a string or splitting the =
bridge on the poor old Betsy Ross is simply too great.  Add to that the =
kind of test blows needed to settle such a change and you'd be bustin' =
those elbows or breaking the keys themselves at the balance rail.=20

        It all adds up to a claim that I would really like to see =
substantiated:  a 100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out "dead on". =
 I'm not from Missouri but *show me* anyway.=20

        Bill Bremmer RPT=20
        Madison, Wisconsin

  --=20
  Warren Fisher RPT=20
  fish@Communique.net=20
  1422 Briarwood Dr.=20
  Slidell, LA 70458-3102=20
   =20


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