This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment "But let's take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange. That's = 100%. Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch. The high = treble may easily be 150% flat. Now add 30 cents for the high treble = for the usual amount of stretch. We're up to 180% now, which = theoretically would take +60 cents overpull." What is all this percent stuff? Do you mean cents? "It all adds up to a claim that I would really like to see = substantiated: a 100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out "dead on". = I'm not from Missouri but *show me* anyway." I guess it depends on what you mean by "dead on". The original statement = was "With the Sanderson Accu tweaker(as Jim Harvey calls it), and a good = ear, I can pitch raise a piano 100 cents low, in two passes and get it = dead on A440." I think this pretty clearly is making the claim that A4 = ends up at 440 hertz. I would imagine that the claim is also being made = that the rest of the notes are close enough for a final tuning pass. = That being the case, I do that routinely. I don't like to raise a string = more than 25 cents above its targeted frequency (I like to keep it a lot = less than that actually). For a 100 cent flat piano, I would do a first = pass overpulling the bass by about 5 cents, the tenor about 10 cents, = and the treble about 15 cents (if the piano is old and crusty I would = first pull the treble to target pitch, and then go over it a second time = targeting pitch again). On my second pitch raising pass I would use the = SAT-calculated overpulls (a little less in bass) and pretty easily end = up within a cent or two of targeted pitch. Prior to the second = pitch-raising pass I would typically find the piano 10-15 cents flat in = the bass, the tenor about 20 cents flat, and the treble perhaps 30 cents = flat. After the second pass, I would most often be ready for a tuning = pass. Sometimes the magic does not work quite so well, and I will either = have to do a third pass to get it close enough for the tuning pass, or = perhaps just adjust a couple octaves before the tuning pass. The top = couple octaves is what usually suffers the most (but do people with = 100-cent flat pianos play up there???).=20 But most often, two pitch raising passes and then a tuning pass for the = 100-cent flat piano. This certainly won't be a concert-level tuning, but = part of my thinking here is that no matter what you do to the poor = neglected piano, it will not be a very stable tuning when you are done, = so trying for tuning perfection may not be of great benefit here. Rather = than trying to get the perfect tuning, I tend to spend a bit of time = during the pitch raise (especially on the second pitch-raise pass) = trying to make sure the back scale string segments get stretched out and = the string is not dropping in pitch under firm blows. I guess that is my = philosophy on such a piano - get it up to pitch, get it as pitch-stable = as is possible, put a tolerable tuning on the piano. I'll commonly spend = about 105 minutes doing the two pitch raise passes and one tuning pass. = Maybe a bit more if the Goddesses are not smiling on me that day. One thing I have noticed when doing the BIG pitch raise is that after = getting the upper treble up to pitch, often you can observe the = instability. I'll give a note a few firm blows to make sure it is not = dropping in pitch, and then put it where I want it. Hit the key hard, = the pitch drops. Hit the key medium light, the pitch goes sharp. Hit it = hard and it goes flat again, play it medium and it goes sharp. You can = vary the pitch easily by two to five cents up and down, up and down, = just by how hard you play the note. When I see that kind of stuff after = the big pitch raise I feel pretty confident that no-way are you going to = get a real stable tuning on that piano on that day. And that's all I got to say 'bout that. Terry Farrell ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Billbrpt@AOL.COM=20 To: pianotech@ptg.org=20 Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Oops? In a message dated 11/5/01 6:16:31 PM Central Standard Time, = davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David Love) writes:=20 Also, so that those who are not familiar with your style of tuning = are not mislead, the standard pitch raise function should get the treble = sharp enough if you measure/reset frequently on the way up and if you = are using standard stretching. I recall that you mentioned that in your = tempered octaves tuning you are +75 cents by the time you get to C8. = Those tuning with normal stretch are more likely to reach only +40. For = your system that would require additional stretch going up. For others, = they would end up considerably sharp of the target and have to do a = lowering before a fine tuning. Yes, but bear in mind that most of the time I use a more conventional = amount of stretch. The triple octave/double octave and fifth comparison = is only for when I wan the absolute maximum and justifiable amount. =20 Once I get into the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are off. = But let's take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange. That's = 100%. Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch. The high = treble may easily be 150% flat. Now add 30 cents for the high treble = for the usual amount of stretch. We're up to 180% now, which = theoretically would take +60 cents overpull. Yipes!=20 Maybe on a new or newly strung piano but even then, I'd prefer to work = my way up. The danger of breaking a string or splitting the bridge on = the poor old Betsy Ross is simply too great. Add to that the kind of = test blows needed to settle such a change and you'd be bustin' those = elbows or breaking the keys themselves at the balance rail.=20 It all adds up to a claim that I would really like to see = substantiated: a 100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out "dead on". = I'm not from Missouri but *show me* anyway.=20 Bill Bremmer RPT=20 Madison, Wisconsin=20 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/81/b6/19/ff/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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