Oops?

[Warren Fisher]

David,

I've already retired. I just can't get them to quit calling me. :-)

Actually, my plan was to do the first pass at 30 cents flat then do the second
with a standard overset from where ever it dropped on the first.  I normally
reduce the overset in the bass by half of what the SAT comes up with.  This
almost always gives me a very nearly correct pitch after the rest of the strings
are pulled in.  When I say bass I mean through all of the wound strings even in
the tenor area.  The first plain wire unison gets the full overset (one quarter
of measured flatness) as do all the strings to the treble break.  The treble
area is always 10-15 cents flatter than the middle in these situations so I put
in an additional overset starting at the first treble string based on a
percentage of the original flatness measured at A4.  In this case it would have
been about 40 cents flat because I did the first pass at 30 cents flat.  I use
15% because gives me the best results with most pianos.  15% of 40 is 6 cents
added to the original overset of 10 cents results in a total overset of 16 cents
in the treble.  This results in all of the strings in the piano being slightly
sharp of pitch at the end of the second pass.  From there tuning consists of
gently bumping the pitch down a little and you're through.  When I do pitch
raises, I start at A0 and adjust all strings straight up to C8.  I adjust my
oversets as I go.  I never have to chase the pitch in the treble.

Comments interspersed below:

Warren

David Love wrote:

> On a piano that flat I would probably do the first pitch raise at 20 cents
> sharp and start with the first plain wire strings.  I would be careful not
> to overstretch the bass strings and would be more conservative with the
> overpull probably pulling it only slightly sharp (10 cents).  I would go
> through and just pull everything without recalculating.  If the strings were
> showing signs of corrosion I would probably only pull to A440, let it drop
> and do another raise.  For the second raise, I would use the pitch raise
> calulator, starting at A0 recalculating at least at every section break  I
> find that it does a good job of calculating the required amount of overpull.
> I wouldn't arbitrarily choose to increase the overpull on the treble.
> Though it might be flatter, it doesn't always drop to the same degree as the
> tenor.

This is true with grands and large uprights but not with small ones.  They drop
more than the center.  I use 10-13% with these pianos.

> Also, you are closer to the breaking point as you go up the scale.

I have had no problem with string breakage in the treble using this procedure
and I hate to make another pass through the treble while I'm supposed to be
finishing the tuning.

>
> After that raise you should be able to fine tune.  I would prep the customer
> that string breakage on a piano that has not been tuned for that long and
> that needs that much of a raise is a definite possibility.  I would make it
> clear that replacing strings is not part of the tuning fee and outline the
> potential costs.

That's not a problem

>  I prefer to go through the piano as many times as needed
> to get the piano where it needs to be.

I agree, but I don't want to do extra passes because I didn't do it right the
first time.

> Somebody who has waited that long is not likely to
> schedule the needed follow up.

I give them a lecture on why they should tune regularly and schedule their next
appointment while I am there.  I send out a "confirm or cancel" card just like a
dentist.

> Get it done now.  By the time they call you
> again you will probably already have retired.
>
> David Love
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warren Fisher" <fish@communique.net>
> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: November 04, 2001 1:07 PM
> Subject: Oops?
>
> > The other day I was chatting with my customer (big mistake right there),
> > while setting up a SAT pitch raise of about 125 cents on a small
> > console. Now I usually do a two stage PR with more than 100 cents
> > flatness to avoid over-stressing the strings and of course in middle of
> > octave 4, I get that lovely pranging sound!
> >
> > So what do I do now, go on and possibly break more strings or reduce the
> > overset?
> >
> > I chose the latter.  With the SAT at A440, I continued (No more strings
> > broke). Another mitigating factor- I normally increase the pitch overset
> > above the treble break by 15% of the measured flatness, in this case
> > 18-1/2 cents to allow for the lower pitches usually found in the upper
> > areas of neglected pianos.
> >
> > Now I have a piano at pitch to D4, -24 cents at A4 and about -15 in the
> > treble.
> >
> > Being an old fighter jock, I attacked the biggest problem first; the -24
> > cents. Starting at D#4, I overset 6 cents and proceeded to the break.
> > Next I read the flatness in several areas of the treble and averaged to
> > -16cents. I overset 4 cents (I figured I had overset enough on the first
> > time through), and went to 88.
> >
> > What did I have now?  A mess!
> > It was on pitch through the wound strings, about G3.  All the wire below
> > D#4 was about 3 cents flat. D#4 to the break was 2-3 cents sharp and
> > most of the treble was 5 cents or better flat.  Go figure!
> >
> > Obviously, I don't have a real good mental picture of what was going on
> > there. A couple of times in the past, I would put extra overset in
> > somewhere in the pitch raise and for some reason not get back into the
> > page I was using and would tune a bunch of notes with a zero in the
> > right window.  When I went back over them with correct settings the
> > notes were always over-sharp on the next time through. You have to
> > reduce the overset through the section in error about 10% and then go
> > back up to the  original overset.
> >
> > Does anybody have ideas on this?
> >
> > Warren
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Warren Fisher RPT
> > fish@Communique.net
> > 1422 Briarwood Dr.
> > Slidell, LA 70458-3102
> >
> >

--
Warren Fisher RPT
fish@Communique.net
1422 Briarwood Dr.
Slidell, LA 70458-3102