Upright Hammer Selection

[Erwinpiano]

Terry

    What I'm saying is that many old uprights that you've experienced a good
really sound with the original and not worn out hammers have hammer weights
significantly lower than the average garden variety replacement hammers from
any supplier. You've probably noticed some uprights where at least the top
30 notes have been tapered to reduce weight. Many makers did this. Why we
ask? As you say too much weight can choke the sound especially the ever
sensitive treble sections due to ,too much hammer contact time with the
string.
   Also in uprights as in grand pianos of the early 1900's the hammer
weights were lighter than modern hammer weights. I discovered this by
weighing old v.s. new hammers.  And hearing a darker sound out of
unenlightened sets of hammers that I have installed.

    What I hear you asking is what are the boundaries of light v.s.heavy
hammer weights. For example on a stwy O/L/M   note  c-4 in the bass is
typically around 8 grams.  My typical starting weight on the 14 l.b. sapele
hammers I use is about 10.5 grams.  That means removing the extra weight (if
I need to) and I can do it. But If my starting new hammer weight is 11grams
or higher I can't get down to it. I would probably except 8.5 if the action
could handle it but no more.
   Often I'm changing knuckle placement slightly or as is required thru
preliminary analysis to mitigate extra weight either for touch ,tone or
both. I log how many leads ,reg parameters, original touchweight etc. I
calculate the weight of every C note hammer( new and old) on every action we
do. Basically I,m trying take this actions "picture" before I decide on my
hammer weights. But after a while you can guess what you'll find.
   I can send you some samples spec.sheets if you like for comparative
information as I log each one.
  You sound like you might enjoy and go wild with an inexpensive gram
scale,I did. It changed my life.Pianotek has one for I think 100 ish u.s.
   All your other presuppositions are right on target. It will just take
more time and futzing for you to know how to manipulate hammer weights for a
desired outcome. Rule of thumb is most most all pianos will tolerate more
weight from note on to aboutC-5 or slightly higher then watch out. The tone
will often be slightly darker with more weight.

 Got to go. Best
  Dale Erwin




----- Original Message -----
From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Upright Hammer Selection


> OK, now you've really got my curiosity. "Lots of extra weight to remove
and
> it really improves the tone." My understanding of hammer weight is that it
> has two effects. First, on touchweight: the heavier the hammer, the more
it
> will add to touchweight - just that simple. Second is tone: a too-light
> hammer will produce less power, less dynamics, adding weight will improve
> overall piano power/color-range/etc., adding more weight will continue
> hammer improvements until you get to a critical weight where it is too
much
> weight and you start to hear a bit distorted sound. Stay just below that
> too-heavy weight.
>
> Please keep in mind here that I have almost zero personal/professional
> experience with all this hammer weight stuff - I'm just trying to learn in
> what direction popular thinking lies. Just trying to probe the hornet's
> nest!
>
> Are you saying that perhaps some hammers may be past this maximum weight
> zone and lightening them up a bit will get them to a weight where they are
> near their performance maximum, and producing optimum tone? Or are you
> suggesting that (I suppose within some given reasonable weight range) the
> more you lighten the hammer, the more tone will improve? Two very
different
> ways of thinking - am I clear on that?
>
> Terry Farrell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erwinpiano" <Erwinpiano@email.msn.com>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:45 PM
> Subject: Fw: Upright Hammer Selection
>
>
> > Terry
> >
> >    You are right about too much weight effecting tone/repetition in
> > uprights. By now you know I'll suggest Ronsen hammers but whatever you
use
> > it is good practice to taper the hammers as on a grand if to heavy (and
> most
> > are) When I started weighing upright hammers and comparing old to new
hmmr
> > weights, wow was I shocked. Lots of extra weight to remove and it really
> > improves the tone.
> >
> > Dale Erwin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 6:36 AM
> > Subject: Upright Hammer Selection
> >
> >
> > > Does anyone have new hammer recommendations (what's your favorite
> flavor?)
> > > for turn-of-the-century 54" Steinway & Mason & Hamlin? I am also
> concerned
> > > about hammer weight. I understand its effect on tone and touchweight
on
> > the
> > > grand, but on the vertical it would seem that hammer weight would
affect
> > > tone in a similar way, but touchweight would be different - I should
> think
> > > it would have a greater effect on inertia and less an effect on down
and
> > up
> > > weights. How does all this shake out? Thanks again for input.
> > >
> > > Terry Farrell
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>