traveling

[David Ilvedson]

Ah but Paul, do you hang hammers this way now?  And what did you do at the convention...best class etc?  
Sorry I couldn't make as I have a community performance group/hall I volunteer with and commitments...

David I.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/25/01 at 7:30 PM larudee@pacbell.net wrote:

>Sorry, I've been at the CA convention the last few days and just got
>back.  Avery's
>description agrees with what I recall from Pris's class, and I did not
>mean to
>imply that the method ever includes putting new hammers on old shanks, if
>that is
>what anyone understood.
>
>However, the method involves reference to the "space" swept out by the
>hammer as it
>moves between the hammers on either side.  This means that there are
>hammers on
>either side to start with.  They can either be old hammers or new hammers.
> If they
>are new hammers, they cannot both be glued hammers because there would
>have been no
>reference to orient them, so at least one of them would have to have been
>dry
>hung.  The only other choice is to use the old hammers for reference.  In
>Pris's
>class all the parts were new, although the end hammers of each section
>were somehow
>prehung for reference, perhaps intended to represent old hammers.
>
>The more I think about it, the more I think Avery is right that Pris's
>method did
>not involve using the every-other-hammer method.  However, I'm pretty sure
>we dry
>hung the hammers and then glued them using the previously glued hammer and
>the
>following dry hung hammer for reference.
>
>It's actually a very efficient method that makes few demands in the way of
>jigs,
>measurements, sightlines, etc., and gets the parts squared and aligned
>very nicely
>except for the final hammer-string alignment.  It may sound
>counterintuitive and
>complicated on paper, but if you ever try it (as in taking Pris's class),
>it
>provokes a "Eureka!" because of its ease, simplicity and coolness.
>
>Paul S. Larudee
>
>Avery Todd wrote:
>
>> Paul and others,
>>
>> OK. I'm going to attempt this. I've known Pris & Joel for 20 yrs. or so
>and
>> have done
>> quite a bit of work with them. Paul, as I understand it, you're the
>closest
>> to explaining
>> her method. One problem though. I've never heard Pris advocate dry
>hanging the
>> hammers or hanging every other one and I KNOW she never leaves the old
>> hammers and shanks on and install every other one.
>>
>> I've had her glue several sets for me over the years and that isn't the
>way
>> she does it.
>> Yes, she dry hangs the guides (tightly) but from that point on, they're
>> hung consecutively.
>> Even though they may "look" crooked after gluing, after I do the normal
>> traveling, they are
>> normally very straight and I have very little burning to do .
>>
>> Her whole point is that it isn't NECESSARY to pre-travel the shanks in
>> order to end
>> up (after normal traveling) with reasonably straight hammers. She does
>> check them
>> and travels any that are grossly out prior to hanging but does not try to
>> "fine" travel
>> the shanks prior to hanging.
>>
>> This is the whole problem with using a jig to hang hammers. When one does
>> that,
>> one HAS to do a lot of pre-traveling or else there is a LOT of burning to
>> do later. I
>> know. I've bought pre-hung hammers and there is a lot of traveling and
>> burning to
>> do once they are installed, so even though I don't know for a fact, I
>can only
>> assume that a jig of some kind is used to do that.
>>
>> It's very difficult to explain in words and as Pris has told me, to most
>> people, it's
>> very difficult to grasp the concept even in a class. You have to ignore
>the
>> "traveling" of the hammer and pay attention to the "air", "light",
>> whatever, between
>> the top and the tail of the hammer when gluing. If that space doesn't
>> change when
>> you lift the hammer with the jack, even though it might LOOK like it's
>> glued on
>> crooked, once it's traveled correctly, it will be straight. If it's glued
>> on so it "looks"
>> straight, as when using a jig, once you do the traveling, the hammers
>are then
>> crooked again and you have to do a lot of burning to straighten them up.
>>
>> Pris isn't saying that pre-traveling isn't a good way to do it,
>> necessarily. She's only
>> saying that it isn't "necessary" because once the hammers are hung, you
>> usually
>> have to go back and do a good bit of traveling anyway. I've tried to use
>> the "lines
>> drawn on a piece of wood" method of pre-traveling but I just have never
>> been able
>> to get it so accurate that I didn't have to go back and spend just about
>as
>> much
>> time as at the beginning in traveling after the hammers are hung and if I
>> can avoid
>> it, I really hate having to do the same job twice. :-)
>>
>> I really do understand the method in my mind but I've probably not done
>a good
>> job of explaining it in words. Hope this makes a little sense to some.
>>
>> Avery
>>
>> P.S. Does E for Effort count? :-)
>>
>> At 09:57 AM 02/22/01 -0800, you wrote:
>> >I guess I missed a couple of messages at the beginning of this thread,
>but
>> >Pris's method (the one she used doing factory work in Germany) is as
>> >follows (to
>> >the best of my recollection), and ideally involves no squaring/burning,
>> >although
>> >mere mortals may find a bit necessary nonetheless.
>> >
>> >1.  Mount the shanks without traveling them.
>> >2.  Dry hang the hammers, roughly squaring them.
>> >3.  Glue hang every other hammer, orienting it such that it sweeps the
>same
>> >amount of space on either side during its travel between the adjacent
>hammers.
>> >The hammer may have to be tilted slightly to do that if its travel is
>not
>> >vertical.  What this achieves is an orientation that is perpendicular
>to the
>> >axis of travel, though not necessarily vertical until traveling has
>been done.
>> >4.  Repeat step 3 for the remaining dry hung hammers.
>> >5.  Travel the hammers in the normal way by shimming the flanges.
>> >6.  Square/burn the hammers as needed, although if the other steps have
>been
>> >done perfectly, this step will be unnecessary.
>> >
>> >When replacing old hammers and shanks, the variation would be as follows
>> >(pardon
>> >the repetition):
>> >
>> >1.  Mount every other shank without traveling them, leaving the
>remaining old
>> >hammers and shanks in place.
>> >2.  Glue hang the hammers, orienting them such that each sweeps the same
>> >amount
>> >of space on either side during its travel between the adjacent hammers.
> The
>> >hammer may have to be tilted slightly to do that if its travel is not
>> >vertical.
>> >What this achieves is an orientation that is perpendicular to the axis
>of
>> >travel, though not necessarily vertical until traveling has been done.
>> >3.  Travel the new hammers in the normal way by shimming the flanges.
>> >4.  Square/burn the hammers as needed, although if the other steps have
>been
>> >done perfectly, this step will be unnecessary.
>> >5.  Repeat the above for replacement of the remaining old hammers.
>> >
>> >I am of course leaving out a bunch of detail not particularly relevant
>to the
>> >method, but I hope it shows the idea.  As far as I know, Pris never
>advocated
>> >burning as a method of traveling, and I agree that such a method does
>not
>> >compute.
>> >
>> >Paul S. Larudee