This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Murray, "Mr. Centre"??? You haven't taken to naming the strings?? = Pullllleeeeeeeeze! This is not like you. Too much sesame street perhaps? Sorry......just = noticed it wasn't you but an American cousin. Had me scared though. ;~\ Best, Bob ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Murray Seminuk <seminukm@cadvision.com> Subject: Re: ETD question re: unisons > Hi Terry >Which string do you tune first after Mr. Centre? I usually tune the = left string > first and then the centre next.>=20 >Regards > Murray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 5:20 AM > Subject: Re: ETD question re: unisons >=20 >=20 > > Just to add to what folks observe. I routinely observe this = phenomena. I > > tune with my SAT, use two mutes and tune my unisons as I go. I kinda = like > > that because I can easily observe my center string pitch to make = sure it > is > > stable. I tune Mr. center to the SAT, and then pull in my first = unison. > > Often in that killer octave area I see the whole thing drop a tad on = the > SAT > > (go flat) and I think, hmmmm, did my center string drop or did this = funky > > thing occur? I move my mute so that only the center string sounds = and > > Walla - right back to pitch! This happens often. It sure seems real = to me. > > And it definitely varies from note to note. Some notes will have no > change, > > some a tiny little bit, and some a frustrating amount. > > > > Terry Farrell > > Piano Tuning & Service > > Tampa, Florida > > mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Murray Seminuk" <seminukm@cadvision.com> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 12:31 AM > > Subject: Re: ETD question re: unisons > > > > > > > Hi Roger > > > If you can audibly here that the note is out of tune with the = octave > > after > > > all these attempts at tuning the unisons,then the note did not = stay in > > tune > > > period.If the full blush of the Rct acts the same as the rotating = lights > > on > > > the Sat ,I think that one does not have to look any futher.The = unison > can > > > only be tuned pure with the ear and good hammer technique.You also > > mentioned > > > that this is a newly strung piano. I don't think that this piano = would > be > > > very stable yet to do a test like this and produce any kind of = results > to > > > make any reliable assements.Keep on testing. > > > Regards > > > Murray > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jolly roger" <baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca> > > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:37 PM > > > Subject: Re: ETD question re: unisons > > > > > > > > > > Hi Muray, > > > > The test was done on a newly strung and hammered = piano, > > > > regulation set with very close letoff. etc. Each string was = sampled > > 10 > > > > times on the spectrum analyser to ensure the partials on each = string > > were > > > > close. Also verified by ear. Each string was tuned several times = for > > full > > > > blush on RCT, .01cent. The test was done with back and front = duplex > > > scales > > > > muted. > > > > The piano was a really nice Steinway O. But I have have had = similar > > > > results from my SD10. > > > > Several notes were done in this manner each showed a drop of 0.2 = - 0.3 > > > cents. > > > > And yes you can just hear the shift when checking the octave. .3 = cents > > is > > > > very audible within the unison > > > > To do this test all string temination points have to be in good > > condition. > > > > Ron is slowly winning me over, re a connection to either = impedence, or > > the > > > > reverse, reactance. > > > > Some serious study of the principals of reciprocity is badly = needed > > before > > > > we can begin to start to understand what is going on. > > > > Traditional piano thinking has been to look at the effect of = loading > > with > > > > respect to the impedence of the board. Mechanical reactance (I > think ) > > > > will be looking at the boards effect on the strings. > > > > They are not nessesarily the same. > > > > The subject is so complex that it would make a great PhD = project. > > > > Good to hear from you. > > > > roger > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:26 PM 2/14/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >Hi Roger > > > > >I'm really on a roll tonight , this is my 3rd reply.Correct me = if I'm > > > wrong > > > > >,but are you saying that you tune each string a number of times = with > > the > > > > >RCT,then take a reading of the three together and have a pitch = drop > of > > .3 > > > > >cents.I have been using a Sat for a number of year sand I find = that I > > > cannot > > > > >always use the lights to tune a unison.I do not have a RCT to = do a > real > > > > >comparison but I find that when the lights stop there still is = a > > "window > > > '' > > > > >to tune within.With my SAT a difference of .3 cents would be > noticable > > to > > > > >the ear.I would wonder if all that has happened is that one of = the > > > strings > > > > >is not in unison. > > > > >Regards > > > > >Murray > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "jolly roger" <baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca> > > > > >To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:27 AM > > > > >Subject: Re: ETD question re: unisons > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Howard, > > > > >> Yes it is easy to confirm. The test that I = have > > done > > > > >with > > > > >> a RCT show about a 0.3 cent drop in octave 5/6. The test was > > performed > > > by > > > > >> tuning each string individually several times, to over come = the > > > > >> interaction. then the net 3 string unison was measured. > > > > >> The effect is known as string coupling. > > > > >> My own theory is that. as all strings start to increase the = amount > of > > > > >> energy into the bridge, the board is moving through a greater > > > excussion, > > > > >> and hence dropping the frequency a tad. > > > > >> Now I've been out to lunch before, and I could be off base on = this > > one. > > > > >> Regards Roger > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> At 10:47 AM 2/14/01 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >> >Hi everyone, > > > > >> > > > > > >> >Since I know nothing about ETD's my question might be naive. > > > Nevertheless > > > > >> >here goes: I believe that Virgil's assertion that a 3 string > unison > > is > > > > >> >flatter than each of the single strings heard singly, is a = bit > > > > >questionable > > > > >> >or should I say not fully accepted. Wouldn't it be easy and > > conclusive > > > to > > > > >> >check this thesis by using an ETD to measure this? Thanks! > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >Howard S. Rosen, RPT > > > > >> >7262 Angel Falls Ct. > > > > >> >Boynton Beach, Fl 33437 > > > > >> > > > > > >> >hsrosen@gate.net > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/31/43/2b/c6/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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