newbie questions: stretching

[John Meulendijks]

Actually I want to stay a newbie all of my life, in order to go further.
Thank you for replying and confirming my puzzlements about the wide 8+5 in
the bass.  I have no electronic aids to help me proving it. And that happens
to be the attitude today to consider things true or not. But most of the
time I think what you hear is what you get.....
That is why I fully agree with your statement: what the piano wants, the
piano gets. I cannot escape from that, and I think nobody can. But still I
can make a lot of  mistakes and want to be sure to do all I can to eliminate
them if possible.

Greetings,

nice to meet any of you anytime around here (as long as I can keep up with
this amount of communication: that is really what is bothering me: just
reading takes already to much of my time..... let
be writing......)

John Meulendijks.

(I see you there, behind that stone.......)



----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin E. Ramsey <ramsey@extremezone.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:23 AM
Subject: Fw: newbie questions: stretching


> OOPPPSSS. I didn't realize that it was a reply.  DOH!  Anyway, good advise
> John!
>
>     (oh jeez sometimes I could just crawl under a rock and hide from the
> sunlight, oh jeez.)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin E. Ramsey" <ramsey@extremezone.com>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:18 PM
> Subject: Re: newbie questions: stretching
>
>
> >     Look, John, and by the way, welcome newbie. Doesn't sound like a
> newbie
> > question though. Hmmm.
> >
> >     All this talk about stretch is really talking about small degrees.
In
> > the upper treble especially, some people stretch the octave so that it's
> > pure at the octave-fifth level, some people tune pure ( or slightly
> > stretched ) double octaves. Some even tune octaves so that they're pure
to
> > the triple octave. If you tune aurally, just tune your last octave a
> little
> > wide, and you'll probably come close to the same thing.
> >     Actually, because of inharmonicity, if you tune all your octaves
> "pure",
> > you will still introduce "stretch", just not artificial, extra,
stretch.
> >     As far as the bass goes, yes it does end up on the wide side of the
> > "octave-quint". "What the Piano wants, the Piano gets."
> >     Obviously, the quality of your question shows that you are no
> "newbie".
> > Hope to see your name in print more often.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Meulendijks" <piano@planet.nl>
> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 12:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: newbie questions: stretching
> >
> >
> > > When I get the impression I get to low with my highest treble side, I
> tune
> > > beatless over three or even four!! octaves. I check if it is beatless
in
> > the
> > > upper octave,
> > > and it mostly is. So what is all this talk about stretching. I blame
the
> > > fysicist who published the results of his research saying that the
> > frequency
> > > of a upper partial is more than twice, three times etc. You cannot
hear
> > > that. Because it is all in the system incorporated. You don't need to
> > > stretch to make it fit. When it fits it is stretched. You cannot hear
> it.
> > So
> > > actually I blame all the followers of fashion.
> > > On the other hand: you can make a deliberate choice to do so because
> then
> > > you have something to talk about. Some musicians want you to do it,
but
> I
> > > never came across one who said that my treble side was to low. So I
> never
> > > needed to do so. And again in my opinion I don't strech the treble
side.
> > > In the bass it is of some importance to my opinion. Because I
experience
> > > mean sounding intervals as a result of clean octaves. I.e. the quint
> > (fifth)
> > > and the 5+8. When I stretch to much in the bass I get dirty 10th's. So
> how
> > > can I match this with your question?? I prefer in the contrabas very
> > > beatless octaves, because this is often the way they are played. And
> above
> > > all I don't want for example F'-a to be more fast than F-a. It spoiles
> the
> > > feeling of the root of a chord. But attention: my last check is A''-a,
> > > Bb''-Bb etc. And Most of the time I don't hear beats. So I only have
> > focused
> > > on stretching, but not really doing it (I mean upon above the natural
> > > stretch that you can't hear.) What puzzles me is that I have the
> > impression
> > > that the octave plus quint gets oversized in the lower bass, without
> beats
> > > in the octaves.
> > >
> > > John Meulendijks
> > > Tilburg, the Netherlands.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Charles Neuman <cneuman@phy.duke.edu>
> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:03 PM
> > > Subject: newbie questions: stretching
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is stretching the high treble an art or science? That is, do you
> balance
> > > > the single and double octaves by whether or not it "sounds good", or
> do
> > > > you go by a specified amount of stretch in cents? I've heard both
> > > > opinions.
> > > >
> > > > If it's more of an art, I would imagine there are those who favor
the
> > > > single octaves and those that favor the double octaves. Is this the
> > case?
> > > > Also, do performers ever specify the amount of stretch they like?
> > > >
> > > > As for the bass, I'm finding that if I tune the bass notes at other
> than
> > > > beatless octaves, it sounds muddy and out of tune. But then I get
> those
> > > > horrible sounding 10ths, which I know I should expect. Any advice on
> > > > balancing these two problems?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Charles Neuman
> > > > Plainview, NY
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>