And those are?........ David I. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/5/01 at 8:12 AM Paul wrote: >Yes I do, but only under certain circumstances. > >Paul Chick >----- Original Message ----- >From: David Ilvedson <ilvey@jps.net> >To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:24 PM >Subject: Re: To tune or not to tune? > > >> >I hope you don't do free estimates. >> >> I agree! Do any techs on the List give free estimates? >> >> David. >> >> >> >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "pryan2" <pryan2@the-beach.net> >> >To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >> >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:41 PM >> >Subject: To tune or not to tune? >> > >> > >> >> This week (and it's only Thursday) I have been called out to tune >three >> >> un-tunable (upright) pianos which the owners indicated on the phone >> were >> >> tunable, even though they were 80 to 100 years old. When I arrived at >> >the >> >> homes, the pianos were wrecks with the expected rust, corrosion, and >> rot. >> >> To these owners, a tuning meant a rebuild. In each case, I left >without >> >> tuning. How can I avoid this in the future? Is there a number of >> >years-old >> >> that you will not go out for a tuning? How do I weed out the tunable >> >> pianos from the un-tunable pianos on the phone? >> >> >> >> Phil Ryan >> >> Miami Beach, FL >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos@hotmail.com> >> >> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:38 AM >> >> Subject: Re: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Jim: >> >> > >> >> > Would you then consider using varnish as driving fluid on a >> restringing >> >> job >> >> > where you are reusing the old block? With what effect? >> >> > >> >> > David Love >> >> > >> >> > >From: JIMRPT@AOL.COM >> >> > >Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org >> >> > >To: pianotech@ptg.org >> >> > >Subject: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps >> >> > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 01:00:58 EDT >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >In a message dated 4/03/2001 10:41:07 PM, Dale wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > ><<"I've wondered about driving fluids >> >> > > >> >> > >as well but have not used them.">> >> >> > > >> >> > >Dale a Cuba Libre ain't bad on a warm day and...... it sho makes >> >working >> >> > >less >> >> > >painful! :-) >> >> > > >> >> > > Undoubtedly you will get several "opinions" in this thread so >> here's >> >> > >mine....OK? >> >> > >A good pin driving aid will contain 3(?) qualities and these are: >> >> > >1.) ease of use/application. >> >> > >2.) consistency of results. >> >> > >3.) aid in stringing effort. >> >> > > >> >> > > My favorite weapon of choice is Spar Varnish because it is: >> >> > >1.) easy to use/apply. (little dab'll do you and too much won't >> effect >> >> long >> >> > >term results. >> >> > >2.) gives verrry consistent results. >> >> > >3.) makes stringing sooo much easier (particuarly if you use a T >> >handle >> >> > >like >> >> > >I do. >> >> > > >> >> > > The varnish acts as a sealer/lubricant while it is still wet and >as >> >a >> >> > >sealer/ snap retardant when it is dry. Turning pins in a wet >pinblock >> >> > >treated >> >> > >with varnish is aprox 1/4 to 1/3 easier than turning them when the >> >block >> >> is >> >> > >dry. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > <<"I'm using buldoc/stwy blocks in all >> >> > > >> >> > >stwys/Rebuilds and the pins are hard to drive and no matte how >> >> consistently >> >> > > >> >> > >I drill I.E. same speed,pressure and air cooling there will always >be >> >> some >> >> > > >> >> > >tortional inconsistencies. That being said I mostly like how they >> >> tune.">> >> >> > > >> >> > > The five ply blocks you are using are very good blocks...but like >> >most >> >> > >things they do have some drawbacks chief of which is what mayyyy be >> >> termed >> >> > >soft spotitis. >> >> > > This happens when two or more layers of the pinblock have 'soft' >> >spots >> >> > >lined >> >> > >up vertically. The result of this is that when you drill the holes >> >they >> >> > >will >> >> > >be a trifle larger in the 'soft spots' then in the relatively >> 'harder' >> >> rest >> >> > >of the block...........also these 'soft spots' will not hold a pin >> >with >> >> the >> >> > >same force as will the 'harder' portions of the plank....this >results >> >in >> >> > >your >> >> > >"tortional inconsistencies'. Just the way things are with these >> >> > >blocks...don't mean they are 'bad'. Short of hand picking ass'td >size >> >> pins >> >> > >for preselected holes I don't know any cure for this symptom. >> >> > > >> >> > >In a 5 ply block with two soft spots together this "spotitis" will >> >effect >> >> > >aprox. 40% of the pin length...or if the first 4 layers are all >that >> >are >> >> > >contacted it will effect aprox. 50% of the pin length....how much >> this >> >> will >> >> > >effect the "inconsistencies" you are speaking of is relative to the >> >rest >> >> of >> >> > >the block. >> >> > > >> >> > > If'n y'all likes the way dey tune, and all the other parameters >of >> >> > >stability, etc. are there, then keep on keepin on. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > <<"My question is this. For those of you who are using maple >> >blocks >> >> and >> >> > > >> >> > >driving fluids ,do you think it affects tuning smoothness, changes >> >> > >tortional >> >> > > >> >> > >values or is it just a way to make driving a pin easier. My >> >> > >srtinger(Terry) >> >> > > >> >> > >is a little five ft. Italian gal and although plenty fiesty would >> >> > >appreciate >> >> > > >> >> > >any help in the driving each new One ought pins into freshly bored >> >> > >maple.:>> >> >> > > >> >> > > Varnish treated blocks definitely have fewer 'snappers' than do >non >> >> > >treated >> >> > >blocks,.....in my experience. Driving in the pins is much easier >and >> >> > >setting >> >> > >coils, applying tension and chipping are all easier by 'far' while >> the >> >> > >varnish is still at least damp. >> >> > >1/0 pins??? Why do you use 1/0 pins? In my opinion 1/0 pins add a >> >measure >> >> > >of >> >> > >flagpoling/twistyness that I don't like, but if there is a gooood >> >reason >> >> > >for >> >> > >using them I might reconsider my thoughts here. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > <<"Also if driving fluid changed slightly the pin torque and >> >allowed >> >> for >> >> > > >> >> > >smoother rendering that would be fine.">> >> >> > > >> >> > > Dale, treating or not treating the pins/pinblock has absolutely >> >nothing >> >> > >to >> >> > >do with string rendering other than making the tuning pin easier to >> >> > >manipulate. However that being said I will contradict myself and >say >> >that >> >> > >having to fight the pin less will allow you to 'feel' the rendering >> >much >> >> > >better....or is that what you meant? >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ><<"The finest tuning piano in the world >> >> > > >> >> > >is an old steinway thats never yet been restrung. You know the kind >> >,well >> >> > > >> >> > >preserved and unadulterated. The pin torque is so even and the >> tuning >> >> ends >> >> > > >> >> > >up being so stable because the pin doesn't wrestle with the >> >tuner!!!!">> >> >> > > >> >> > >Betcha a LARGE cup of coffee that this pinblock was treated with >> >varnish >> >> > >during stringing...wanna bet? :-) >> >> > >My opinion. >> >> > >Jim Bryant (FL) >> >> > >p.s. Do a test for yourself....take a scrap piece of >> pinblock....drill >> >> > >three >> >> > >holes... >> >> > >drill one hole 17/64ths and two holes 1/4"..............(adjust for >> >your >> >> > >favorite sizing/feel).....in the 17/64 and first 1/4 >> >> hole..........install >> >> > >2/0 pins to the level where they would normally be after >> chipping/coil >> >> > >setting/tapping.......in the last 1/4 hole (for the test only) wet >a >> >> small >> >> > >piece/wad of paper towel with spar varnish and push through the >> >pinblock >> >> > >with >> >> > >a hammer shank...install the pin to the same level as the other two >> >> pins(be >> >> > >sure and mark the holes as to which is what:). Immediatetly try >> >turning >> >> > >the >> >> > >pins starting with the 17/64 and ending with the treated >> >pin.......wait >> >a >> >> > >few >> >> > >hours and try turning the pins again....set the test aside for a >week >> >or >> >> so >> >> > >and then try the pins again...let us know what you find OK? >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >>
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