To tune or not to tune?

jolly roger baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca
Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:46:14 -0500


I rebate it off the bill if they go ahead. On major service jobs. No no
real freebies.
Roger

At 09:24 PM 4/4/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>I hope you don't do free estimates.
>
>I agree!  Do any techs on the List give free estimates?  
>
>David.
>
>
>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "pryan2" <pryan2@the-beach.net>
>>To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:41 PM
>>Subject: To tune or not to tune?
>>
>>
>>> This week (and it's only Thursday) I have been called out to tune three
>>> un-tunable (upright) pianos which the owners indicated on the phone
>were
>>> tunable, even though they were 80 to 100 years old.  When I arrived at
>>the
>>> homes, the pianos were wrecks with the expected rust, corrosion, and
>rot.
>>> To these owners, a tuning meant a rebuild.  In each case, I left without
>>> tuning.  How can I avoid this in the future?  Is there a number of
>>years-old
>>> that you will not go out for a tuning?  How do I  weed out the tunable
>>> pianos from the un-tunable pianos on the phone?
>>>
>>> Phil Ryan
>>> Miami Beach, FL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos@hotmail.com>
>>> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:38 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Jim:
>>> >
>>> > Would you then consider using varnish as driving fluid on a
>restringing
>>> job
>>> > where you are reusing the old block?  With what effect?
>>> >
>>> > David Love
>>> >
>>> > >From: JIMRPT@AOL.COM
>>> > >Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org
>>> > >To: pianotech@ptg.org
>>> > >Subject: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps
>>> > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 01:00:58 EDT
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >In a message dated 4/03/2001 10:41:07 PM, Dale wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > ><<"I've wondered about driving fluids
>>> > >
>>> > >as well but have not used them.">>
>>> > >
>>> > >Dale a Cuba Libre ain't bad on a warm day and...... it sho makes
>>working
>>> > >less
>>> > >painful! :-)
>>> > >
>>> > >  Undoubtedly you will get several "opinions" in this thread so
>here's
>>> > >mine....OK?
>>> > >A good pin driving aid will contain 3(?) qualities and these are:
>>> > >1.) ease of use/application.
>>> > >2.) consistency of results.
>>> > >3.) aid in stringing effort.
>>> > >
>>> > >  My favorite weapon of choice is Spar Varnish because it is:
>>> > >1.) easy to use/apply. (little dab'll do you and too much won't
>effect
>>> long
>>> > >term results.
>>> > >2.) gives verrry consistent results.
>>> > >3.) makes stringing sooo much easier (particuarly if you use a T
>>handle
>>> > >like
>>> > >I do.
>>> > >
>>> > >  The varnish acts as a sealer/lubricant while it is still wet and as
>>a
>>> > >sealer/ snap retardant when it is dry. Turning pins in a wet pinblock
>>> > >treated
>>> > >with varnish is aprox 1/4 to 1/3 easier than turning them when the
>>block
>>> is
>>> > >dry.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >  <<"I'm using buldoc/stwy blocks in all
>>> > >
>>> > >stwys/Rebuilds and the pins are hard to drive and no matte how
>>> consistently
>>> > >
>>> > >I drill I.E. same speed,pressure and air cooling there will always be
>>> some
>>> > >
>>> > >tortional inconsistencies.  That being said I mostly like how they
>>> tune.">>
>>> > >
>>> > >  The five ply blocks you are using are very good blocks...but like
>>most
>>> > >things they do have some drawbacks chief of which is what mayyyy be
>>> termed
>>> > >soft spotitis.
>>> > >  This happens when two or more layers of the pinblock have 'soft'
>>spots
>>> > >lined
>>> > >up vertically. The result of this is that when you drill the holes
>>they
>>> > >will
>>> > >be a trifle larger in the 'soft spots' then in the relatively
>'harder'
>>> rest
>>> > >of the block...........also these 'soft spots' will not hold a pin
>>with
>>> the
>>> > >same force as will the 'harder' portions of the plank....this results
>>in
>>> > >your
>>> > >"tortional inconsistencies'. Just the way things are with these
>>> > >blocks...don't mean they are 'bad'. Short of hand picking ass'td size
>>> pins
>>> > >for preselected holes I don't know any cure for this symptom.
>>> > >
>>> > >In a 5 ply block with two soft spots together this "spotitis" will
>>effect
>>> > >aprox. 40% of the pin length...or if the first 4 layers are all that
>>are
>>> > >contacted it will effect aprox. 50% of the pin length....how much
>this
>>> will
>>> > >effect the "inconsistencies" you are speaking of is relative to the
>>rest
>>> of
>>> > >the block.
>>> > >
>>> > >  If'n y'all likes the way dey tune, and all the other parameters of
>>> > >stability, etc. are there, then keep on  keepin on.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >    <<"My question is this. For those of you who are using maple
>>blocks
>>> and
>>> > >
>>> > >driving fluids ,do you think it affects tuning smoothness, changes
>>> > >tortional
>>> > >
>>> > >values or is it just a way to make driving a pin easier.  My
>>> > >srtinger(Terry)
>>> > >
>>> > >is a little five ft. Italian gal and although plenty fiesty would
>>> > >appreciate
>>> > >
>>> > >any help in the  driving each new One ought pins into freshly bored
>>> > >maple.:>>
>>> > >
>>> > >  Varnish treated blocks definitely have fewer 'snappers' than do non
>>> > >treated
>>> > >blocks,.....in my experience. Driving in the pins is much easier and
>>> > >setting
>>> > >coils, applying tension and chipping are all easier by 'far' while
>the
>>> > >varnish is still at least damp.
>>> > >1/0 pins??? Why do you use 1/0 pins? In my opinion 1/0 pins add a
>>measure
>>> > >of
>>> > >flagpoling/twistyness that I don't like, but if there is a gooood
>>reason
>>> > >for
>>> > >using them I might reconsider my thoughts here.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >   <<"Also if driving fluid changed slightly the pin torque and
>>allowed
>>> for
>>> > >
>>> > >smoother rendering that would be fine.">>
>>> > >
>>> > >  Dale, treating or not treating the pins/pinblock has absolutely
>>nothing
>>> > >to
>>> > >do with string rendering other than making the tuning pin easier to
>>> > >manipulate. However that being said I will contradict myself and say
>>that
>>> > >having to fight the pin less will allow you to 'feel' the rendering
>>much
>>> > >better....or is that what you meant?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > ><<"The finest tuning piano in the world
>>> > >
>>> > >is an old steinway thats never yet been restrung. You know the kind
>>,well
>>> > >
>>> > >preserved and unadulterated.  The pin torque is so even and the
>tuning
>>> ends
>>> > >
>>> > >up being so stable because the pin doesn't wrestle with the
>>tuner!!!!">>
>>> > >
>>> > >Betcha a LARGE cup of coffee that this pinblock was treated with
>>varnish
>>> > >during stringing...wanna bet? :-)
>>> > >My opinion.
>>> > >Jim Bryant (FL)
>>> > >p.s. Do a test for yourself....take a scrap piece of
>pinblock....drill
>>> > >three
>>> > >holes...
>>> > >drill one hole 17/64ths and two holes 1/4"..............(adjust for
>>your
>>> > >favorite sizing/feel).....in the 17/64 and first 1/4
>>> hole..........install
>>> > >2/0 pins to the level where they would normally be after
>chipping/coil
>>> > >setting/tapping.......in the last 1/4 hole (for the test only) wet a
>>> small
>>> > >piece/wad of paper towel with spar varnish and push through the
>>pinblock
>>> > >with
>>> > >a hammer shank...install the pin to the same level as the other two
>>> pins(be
>>> > >sure and mark the holes as to which is what:).  Immediatetly try
>>turning
>>> > >the
>>> > >pins starting with the 17/64 and ending with the treated
>>pin.......wait
>>a
>>> > >few
>>> > >hours and try turning the pins again....set the test aside for a week
>>or
>>> so
>>> > >and then try the pins again...let us know what you find OK?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
> 



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