To tune or not to tune?

jolly roger baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca
Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:01:28 -0500


Hell Phil, some almost new pianer's are almost untunable. and some are
truly Golden Oldie's.
You got me.
Roger


At 10:41 PM 4/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
>This week (and it's only Thursday) I have been called out to tune three
>un-tunable (upright) pianos which the owners indicated on the phone  were
>tunable, even though they were 80 to 100 years old.  When I arrived at the
>homes, the pianos were wrecks with the expected rust, corrosion, and rot.
>To these owners, a tuning meant a rebuild.  In each case, I left without
>tuning.  How can I avoid this in the future?  Is there a number of years-old
>that you will not go out for a tuning?  How do I  weed out the tunable
>pianos from the un-tunable pianos on the phone?
>
>Phil Ryan
>Miami Beach, FL
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos@hotmail.com>
>To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:38 AM
>Subject: Re: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps
>
>
>>
>> Jim:
>>
>> Would you then consider using varnish as driving fluid on a restringing
>job
>> where you are reusing the old block?  With what effect?
>>
>> David Love
>>
>> >From: JIMRPT@AOL.COM
>> >Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org
>> >To: pianotech@ptg.org
>> >Subject: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps
>> >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 01:00:58 EDT
>> >
>> >
>> >In a message dated 4/03/2001 10:41:07 PM, Dale wrote:
>> >
>> ><<"I've wondered about driving fluids
>> >
>> >as well but have not used them.">>
>> >
>> >Dale a Cuba Libre ain't bad on a warm day and...... it sho makes working
>> >less
>> >painful! :-)
>> >
>> >  Undoubtedly you will get several "opinions" in this thread so here's
>> >mine....OK?
>> >A good pin driving aid will contain 3(?) qualities and these are:
>> >1.) ease of use/application.
>> >2.) consistency of results.
>> >3.) aid in stringing effort.
>> >
>> >  My favorite weapon of choice is Spar Varnish because it is:
>> >1.) easy to use/apply. (little dab'll do you and too much won't effect
>long
>> >term results.
>> >2.) gives verrry consistent results.
>> >3.) makes stringing sooo much easier (particuarly if you use a T handle
>> >like
>> >I do.
>> >
>> >  The varnish acts as a sealer/lubricant while it is still wet and as a
>> >sealer/ snap retardant when it is dry. Turning pins in a wet pinblock
>> >treated
>> >with varnish is aprox 1/4 to 1/3 easier than turning them when the block
>is
>> >dry.
>> >
>> >
>> >  <<"I'm using buldoc/stwy blocks in all
>> >
>> >stwys/Rebuilds and the pins are hard to drive and no matte how
>consistently
>> >
>> >I drill I.E. same speed,pressure and air cooling there will always be
>some
>> >
>> >tortional inconsistencies.  That being said I mostly like how they
>tune.">>
>> >
>> >  The five ply blocks you are using are very good blocks...but like most
>> >things they do have some drawbacks chief of which is what mayyyy be
>termed
>> >soft spotitis.
>> >  This happens when two or more layers of the pinblock have 'soft' spots
>> >lined
>> >up vertically. The result of this is that when you drill the holes they
>> >will
>> >be a trifle larger in the 'soft spots' then in the relatively 'harder'
>rest
>> >of the block...........also these 'soft spots' will not hold a pin with
>the
>> >same force as will the 'harder' portions of the plank....this results in
>> >your
>> >"tortional inconsistencies'. Just the way things are with these
>> >blocks...don't mean they are 'bad'. Short of hand picking ass'td size
>pins
>> >for preselected holes I don't know any cure for this symptom.
>> >
>> >In a 5 ply block with two soft spots together this "spotitis" will effect
>> >aprox. 40% of the pin length...or if the first 4 layers are all that are
>> >contacted it will effect aprox. 50% of the pin length....how much this
>will
>> >effect the "inconsistencies" you are speaking of is relative to the rest
>of
>> >the block.
>> >
>> >  If'n y'all likes the way dey tune, and all the other parameters of
>> >stability, etc. are there, then keep on  keepin on.
>> >
>> >
>> >    <<"My question is this. For those of you who are using maple blocks
>and
>> >
>> >driving fluids ,do you think it affects tuning smoothness, changes
>> >tortional
>> >
>> >values or is it just a way to make driving a pin easier.  My
>> >srtinger(Terry)
>> >
>> >is a little five ft. Italian gal and although plenty fiesty would
>> >appreciate
>> >
>> >any help in the  driving each new One ought pins into freshly bored
>> >maple.:>>
>> >
>> >  Varnish treated blocks definitely have fewer 'snappers' than do non
>> >treated
>> >blocks,.....in my experience. Driving in the pins is much easier and
>> >setting
>> >coils, applying tension and chipping are all easier by 'far' while the
>> >varnish is still at least damp.
>> >1/0 pins??? Why do you use 1/0 pins? In my opinion 1/0 pins add a measure
>> >of
>> >flagpoling/twistyness that I don't like, but if there is a gooood reason
>> >for
>> >using them I might reconsider my thoughts here.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >   <<"Also if driving fluid changed slightly the pin torque and allowed
>for
>> >
>> >smoother rendering that would be fine.">>
>> >
>> >  Dale, treating or not treating the pins/pinblock has absolutely nothing
>> >to
>> >do with string rendering other than making the tuning pin easier to
>> >manipulate. However that being said I will contradict myself and say that
>> >having to fight the pin less will allow you to 'feel' the rendering much
>> >better....or is that what you meant?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ><<"The finest tuning piano in the world
>> >
>> >is an old steinway thats never yet been restrung. You know the kind ,well
>> >
>> >preserved and unadulterated.  The pin torque is so even and the tuning
>ends
>> >
>> >up being so stable because the pin doesn't wrestle with the tuner!!!!">>
>> >
>> >Betcha a LARGE cup of coffee that this pinblock was treated with varnish
>> >during stringing...wanna bet? :-)
>> >My opinion.
>> >Jim Bryant (FL)
>> >p.s. Do a test for yourself....take a scrap piece of pinblock....drill
>> >three
>> >holes...
>> >drill one hole 17/64ths and two holes 1/4"..............(adjust for your
>> >favorite sizing/feel).....in the 17/64 and first 1/4
>hole..........install
>> >2/0 pins to the level where they would normally be after chipping/coil
>> >setting/tapping.......in the last 1/4 hole (for the test only) wet a
>small
>> >piece/wad of paper towel with spar varnish and push through the pinblock
>> >with
>> >a hammer shank...install the pin to the same level as the other two
>pins(be
>> >sure and mark the holes as to which is what:).  Immediatetly try turning
>> >the
>> >pins starting with the 17/64 and ending with the treated pin.......wait a
>> >few
>> >hours and try turning the pins again....set the test aside for a week or
>so
>> >and then try the pins again...let us know what you find OK?
>> >
>> >
>>
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> 



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