Tell the customer on the phone that an evaluation (estimate) is ---dollars. I usually charge about 75% of a tuning charge. Spend time to evaluate the piano and quote. What the piano must have! What the piano should have! What the piano would like to have! Use dollar amounts for the above items that you are willing to do the work for. The less you want to do the job the higher the dollar amount will be. I hope you don't do free estimates. Carl Meyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "pryan2" <pryan2@the-beach.net> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:41 PM Subject: To tune or not to tune? > This week (and it's only Thursday) I have been called out to tune three > un-tunable (upright) pianos which the owners indicated on the phone were > tunable, even though they were 80 to 100 years old. When I arrived at the > homes, the pianos were wrecks with the expected rust, corrosion, and rot. > To these owners, a tuning meant a rebuild. In each case, I left without > tuning. How can I avoid this in the future? Is there a number of years-old > that you will not go out for a tuning? How do I weed out the tunable > pianos from the un-tunable pianos on the phone? > > Phil Ryan > Miami Beach, FL > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos@hotmail.com> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:38 AM > Subject: Re: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps > > > > > > Jim: > > > > Would you then consider using varnish as driving fluid on a restringing > job > > where you are reusing the old block? With what effect? > > > > David Love > > > > >From: JIMRPT@AOL.COM > > >Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org > > >To: pianotech@ptg.org > > >Subject: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps > > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 01:00:58 EDT > > > > > > > > >In a message dated 4/03/2001 10:41:07 PM, Dale wrote: > > > > > ><<"I've wondered about driving fluids > > > > > >as well but have not used them.">> > > > > > >Dale a Cuba Libre ain't bad on a warm day and...... it sho makes working > > >less > > >painful! :-) > > > > > > Undoubtedly you will get several "opinions" in this thread so here's > > >mine....OK? > > >A good pin driving aid will contain 3(?) qualities and these are: > > >1.) ease of use/application. > > >2.) consistency of results. > > >3.) aid in stringing effort. > > > > > > My favorite weapon of choice is Spar Varnish because it is: > > >1.) easy to use/apply. (little dab'll do you and too much won't effect > long > > >term results. > > >2.) gives verrry consistent results. > > >3.) makes stringing sooo much easier (particuarly if you use a T handle > > >like > > >I do. > > > > > > The varnish acts as a sealer/lubricant while it is still wet and as a > > >sealer/ snap retardant when it is dry. Turning pins in a wet pinblock > > >treated > > >with varnish is aprox 1/4 to 1/3 easier than turning them when the block > is > > >dry. > > > > > > > > > <<"I'm using buldoc/stwy blocks in all > > > > > >stwys/Rebuilds and the pins are hard to drive and no matte how > consistently > > > > > >I drill I.E. same speed,pressure and air cooling there will always be > some > > > > > >tortional inconsistencies. That being said I mostly like how they > tune.">> > > > > > > The five ply blocks you are using are very good blocks...but like most > > >things they do have some drawbacks chief of which is what mayyyy be > termed > > >soft spotitis. > > > This happens when two or more layers of the pinblock have 'soft' spots > > >lined > > >up vertically. The result of this is that when you drill the holes they > > >will > > >be a trifle larger in the 'soft spots' then in the relatively 'harder' > rest > > >of the block...........also these 'soft spots' will not hold a pin with > the > > >same force as will the 'harder' portions of the plank....this results in > > >your > > >"tortional inconsistencies'. Just the way things are with these > > >blocks...don't mean they are 'bad'. Short of hand picking ass'td size > pins > > >for preselected holes I don't know any cure for this symptom. > > > > > >In a 5 ply block with two soft spots together this "spotitis" will effect > > >aprox. 40% of the pin length...or if the first 4 layers are all that are > > >contacted it will effect aprox. 50% of the pin length....how much this > will > > >effect the "inconsistencies" you are speaking of is relative to the rest > of > > >the block. > > > > > > If'n y'all likes the way dey tune, and all the other parameters of > > >stability, etc. are there, then keep on keepin on. > > > > > > > > > <<"My question is this. For those of you who are using maple blocks > and > > > > > >driving fluids ,do you think it affects tuning smoothness, changes > > >tortional > > > > > >values or is it just a way to make driving a pin easier. My > > >srtinger(Terry) > > > > > >is a little five ft. Italian gal and although plenty fiesty would > > >appreciate > > > > > >any help in the driving each new One ought pins into freshly bored > > >maple.:>> > > > > > > Varnish treated blocks definitely have fewer 'snappers' than do non > > >treated > > >blocks,.....in my experience. Driving in the pins is much easier and > > >setting > > >coils, applying tension and chipping are all easier by 'far' while the > > >varnish is still at least damp. > > >1/0 pins??? Why do you use 1/0 pins? In my opinion 1/0 pins add a measure > > >of > > >flagpoling/twistyness that I don't like, but if there is a gooood reason > > >for > > >using them I might reconsider my thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > > > <<"Also if driving fluid changed slightly the pin torque and allowed > for > > > > > >smoother rendering that would be fine.">> > > > > > > Dale, treating or not treating the pins/pinblock has absolutely nothing > > >to > > >do with string rendering other than making the tuning pin easier to > > >manipulate. However that being said I will contradict myself and say that > > >having to fight the pin less will allow you to 'feel' the rendering much > > >better....or is that what you meant? > > > > > > > > > > > ><<"The finest tuning piano in the world > > > > > >is an old steinway thats never yet been restrung. You know the kind ,well > > > > > >preserved and unadulterated. The pin torque is so even and the tuning > ends > > > > > >up being so stable because the pin doesn't wrestle with the tuner!!!!">> > > > > > >Betcha a LARGE cup of coffee that this pinblock was treated with varnish > > >during stringing...wanna bet? :-) > > >My opinion. > > >Jim Bryant (FL) > > >p.s. Do a test for yourself....take a scrap piece of pinblock....drill > > >three > > >holes... > > >drill one hole 17/64ths and two holes 1/4"..............(adjust for your > > >favorite sizing/feel).....in the 17/64 and first 1/4 > hole..........install > > >2/0 pins to the level where they would normally be after chipping/coil > > >setting/tapping.......in the last 1/4 hole (for the test only) wet a > small > > >piece/wad of paper towel with spar varnish and push through the pinblock > > >with > > >a hammer shank...install the pin to the same level as the other two > pins(be > > >sure and mark the holes as to which is what:). Immediatetly try turning > > >the > > >pins starting with the 17/64 and ending with the treated pin.......wait a > > >few > > >hours and try turning the pins again....set the test aside for a week or > so > > >and then try the pins again...let us know what you find OK? > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > >
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