Fw: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps

[Erwinpiano]

 Hi Jim

     Thanks for the detailed post.  What type of block are you using?
 I like using 1 ought pins for several reasons.
1.  The diameter being smaller I find there easy to tune.
2. Using a no. 1allows more options such as a particular piano getting
restrung with old board but it won,t be more than bout 5 or 10  yrs before
the client will spring for a new one and the block can then be reused with
no.2s
3 If I ever crash A board or don't like the results I can install a new one
and go to no. 2s
4. Having found that all Asian pianos I know(mostly the my  two Japanese
favorites) use ones and everyone knows how well they tune. I find Ones tune
fine and no flagpoling as far as I can determine.

 With a maple block I drill with a 1/4"bit for ones and a .257 for 2s. I
suspect you're using delignit with reference to your stated drill size and
know little about it having used it only once.

    Betcha a LARGE cup o coffee that you're right bout the old blocks being
driven with fluids.
      I'll try your speriement country boy and let cha all know.

   See ya in Reno The coffees on me

     Dale Erwin




----- Original Message -----
From: <JIMRPT@AOL.COM>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps


>
> In a message dated 4/03/2001 10:41:07 PM, Dale wrote:
>
> <<"I've wondered about driving fluids
>
> as well but have not used them.">>
>
> Dale a Cuba Libre ain't bad on a warm day and...... it sho makes working
less
> painful! :-)
>
>  Undoubtedly you will get several "opinions" in this thread so here's
> mine....OK?
> A good pin driving aid will contain 3(?) qualities and these are:
> 1.) ease of use/application.
> 2.) consistency of results.
> 3.) aid in stringing effort.
>
>  My favorite weapon of choice is Spar Varnish because it is:
> 1.) easy to use/apply. (little dab'll do you and too much won't effect
long
> term results.
> 2.) gives verrry consistent results.
> 3.) makes stringing sooo much easier (particuarly if you use a T handle
like
> I do.
>
>  The varnish acts as a sealer/lubricant while it is still wet and as a
> sealer/ snap retardant when it is dry. Turning pins in a wet pinblock
treated
> with varnish is aprox 1/4 to 1/3 easier than turning them when the block
is
> dry.
>
>
>  <<"I'm using buldoc/stwy blocks in all
>
> stwys/Rebuilds and the pins are hard to drive and no matte how
consistently
>
> I drill I.E. same speed,pressure and air cooling there will always be some
>
> tortional inconsistencies.  That being said I mostly like how they
tune.">>
>
>  The five ply blocks you are using are very good blocks...but like most
> things they do have some drawbacks chief of which is what mayyyy be termed
> soft spotitis.
>  This happens when two or more layers of the pinblock have 'soft' spots
lined
> up vertically. The result of this is that when you drill the holes they
will
> be a trifle larger in the 'soft spots' then in the relatively 'harder'
rest
> of the block...........also these 'soft spots' will not hold a pin with
the
> same force as will the 'harder' portions of the plank....this results in
your
> "tortional inconsistencies'. Just the way things are with these
> blocks...don't mean they are 'bad'. Short of hand picking ass'td size pins
> for preselected holes I don't know any cure for this symptom.
>
> In a 5 ply block with two soft spots together this "spotitis" will effect
> aprox. 40% of the pin length...or if the first 4 layers are all that are
> contacted it will effect aprox. 50% of the pin length....how much this
will
> effect the "inconsistencies" you are speaking of is relative to the rest
of
> the block.
>
>  If'n y'all likes the way dey tune, and all the other parameters of
> stability, etc. are there, then keep on  keepin on.
>
>
>    <<"My question is this. For those of you who are using maple blocks and
>
> driving fluids ,do you think it affects tuning smoothness, changes
tortional
>
> values or is it just a way to make driving a pin easier.  My
srtinger(Terry)
>
> is a little five ft. Italian gal and although plenty fiesty would
appreciate
>
> any help in the  driving each new One ought pins into freshly bored
maple.:>>
>
>  Varnish treated blocks definitely have fewer 'snappers' than do non
treated
> blocks,.....in my experience. Driving in the pins is much easier and
setting
> coils, applying tension and chipping are all easier by 'far' while the
> varnish is still at least damp.
> 1/0 pins??? Why do you use 1/0 pins? In my opinion 1/0 pins add a measure
of
> flagpoling/twistyness that I don't like, but if there is a gooood reason
for
> using them I might reconsider my thoughts here.
>
>
>
>   <<"Also if driving fluid changed slightly the pin torque and allowed for
>
> smoother rendering that would be fine.">>
>
>  Dale, treating or not treating the pins/pinblock has absolutely nothing
to
> do with string rendering other than making the tuning pin easier to
> manipulate. However that being said I will contradict myself and say that
> having to fight the pin less will allow you to 'feel' the rendering much
> better....or is that what you meant?
>
>
>
> <<"The finest tuning piano in the world
>
> is an old steinway thats never yet been restrung. You know the kind ,well
>
> preserved and unadulterated.  The pin torque is so even and the tuning
ends
>
> up being so stable because the pin doesn't wrestle with the tuner!!!!">>
>
> Betcha a LARGE cup of coffee that this pinblock was treated with varnish
> during stringing...wanna bet? :-)
> My opinion.
> Jim Bryant (FL)
> p.s. Do a test for yourself....take a scrap piece of pinblock....drill
three
> holes...
> drill one hole 17/64ths and two holes 1/4"..............(adjust for your
> favorite sizing/feel).....in the 17/64 and first 1/4 hole..........install
> 2/0 pins to the level where they would normally be after chipping/coil
> setting/tapping.......in the last 1/4 hole (for the test only) wet a small
> piece/wad of paper towel with spar varnish and push through the pinblock
with
> a hammer shank...install the pin to the same level as the other two
pins(be
> sure and mark the holes as to which is what:).  Immediatetly try turning
the
> pins starting with the 17/64 and ending with the treated pin.......wait a
few
> hours and try turning the pins again....set the test aside for a week or
so
> and then try the pins again...let us know what you find OK?
>
>