Bill Thanks for the explanation. I've been following the threads on HT's and want to learn a few. Explanations like yours and others that depart from the numbers, clears the muddy waters for me a little. Paul Chick ----- Original Message ----- From: <Billbrpt@AOL.COM> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 10:54 AM Subject: Re: reverse well explained (no graphs, only one number) > In a message dated 10/26/00 10:23:57 AM Central Daylight Time, > drwoodwind@hotmail.com (Ron Koval)writes: > > << Ok, ladies and gents, let’s see if I can shed some light here…. >> > > THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! Ron! > > I couldn't have done nearly as well at explaining this and apparently I > haven't. I do have to apologize to Conrad on this because I always assumed > he knew exactly what I meant by Reverse Well. To me, it is a > self-explanatory term, but I guess not to most people. > > I would only argue one point and that is that sometimes, some tuners do tune > a temperament that is wildly or blatently irregular and unequal. Once, in > Louisiana, I was asked to tune a Yamaha console for which the last tuner (a > highly respected RPT) had attempted the ET with pure 5ths. Sadly, the > attempt ended up being a really exaggerated RW. If this tech had *known* > about HT's and cycle of 5ths temperaments, I'm sure he would not have left > the piano that way and would have retained the customer that I now have had > for several years. > > Here is an alternative way to listen to temperament. Owen Jorgensen says > that it is not a valid way to listen to a temperament but when he told me > that once at a Convention, I responded, "You just wait and see if *they* all > don't do exactly what you think they shouldn't do!" Today's tuners are > trained to listen to 3rds chromatically to test for evenness. So, the first > thing they do is listen to an HT that way and usually freak out at what they > hear. > > In my instructions for the EBVT, I include the following description of the > way 3rds will sound. It will generally apply to most HT's. > > <<The following is the way the 3rds played chromatically will sound from > F3-F4. Just imagine all values inverted and you have Reverse Well. > > F3-A3: slow > F#3-A#3: fast > G3-B3: slow > Ab3-C4: quite fast > A3-C#4: moderate, about the same as ET > Bb-D4: moderate > B3-D#4: very fast > C4-E4: slow, half the speed of ET > C#4-F4: very fast>> > > So, to spell it out, when I listen to detect an RW, I expect and often do > hear this: > > F3-A3: fast, the kind of sound you would associate with getting out > of bed on the wrong side, cutting yourself while shaving, drinking > sour orange juice and cold coffee with rancid cream in it. > F#3-A#3: slow and gentle, an antedote for the above. Enough reason > to call in sick and go back to bed or go fishing and enjoy the > beautiful day. > G3-B3: fast (see F3-A3) > Ab3-C4: moderate, sometimes nearly pure > A3-C#4: usually moderate but could be almost anything > Bb-D4: usually pretty fast > B3-D#4: the sweetest, most gentle beating you have ever heard, too bad > hardly anything is ever written in this key. > C4-E4: the shrillest, fastest, most sour sound in the entire universe. > The kind of sound that would drive anyone with any sensitivity > to music right out of the room. Most people just learn to ignore > it and this is the reason why pianists learn not to listen and why > most people claim that they don't know the difference whether a > piano is in tune or not. > C#4-F4: the sweetest, most gentle beating you have ever heard, > sometimes pure, a good reason to "jump into" 5 flats or > to modulate up that 1/2 step to end the music in a more > harmonious key. (Isn't "Body and Soul" in this key?) > > Believe it and FILE it! > > Bill Bremmer RPT > Madison, Wisconsin >
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