ETD Question

[Richard Brekne]

Grin... am tempted to snip out a lot.. but the questions here are so
specific to statements in my last post that I will let this one stay long.

Kdivad@AOL.COM wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 06/10/2000 5:22:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
> Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no writes:
> 
> Richard, I have a few questions, if you don't mind.
> 
> >
> >  As far as I am aware the only real statistics available point to a
> >  significant difference in the results obtained on the tuning exam from
> >  those examinees who have learned to tune mostly with an ETD versus those
> >  who learned to tune first aurally. The ETD group does poorly.
> 
> Can you tell me what statistics and where you found them?  I would be
> interested in seeing them.

Actually, I have not personally seen these statistics. I keep hearing this
from some of the folks aquainted with PTG testing. I assume (dangerous, I
know) that these comments are truthfully related to us. Course if someone
out there can actually print out the factual statistics this would be
interesting to all.

> >
> >  This points to my mind of thinking to exactly the kind of weakness we all
> >  need to be aware of relating to the use of ETD in general. That it is
> >  indeed all to easy to mis-use. And this is sad indeed because, as rightly
> >  pointed out by many ETD advocates, the ETD can be an extremly valuable
> >  tool.. both for learning and for improving skills, as well as for research.
> 
> Wouldn't misuse of an ETD be sloppy work?  If someone has a tendency for
> sloppy work even if they learned tuning aurally aren't they still going to do
> sloppy work, ETD or not?
> So you think the ETD can be valuable for learning, improving skills and
> research, how about for tuning?
> 

Sloppy work kind implies an element of conciousness. By that I mean you
have to be able to do non-sloppy work to do sloppy work, at least in the
sense of the word sloppy you seem to be refering to. My point is that
mis-use of ETD's can definatly be due to a lack of awareness as to how to
use the tool as much as it can be due to any kind of..shall we say
laziness. The one is an attitude thing, the other is a matter of not really
knowing any better.

Yes I think the ETD can be very valuable for tuning. 
> 
> >
> >  As far as your analogy to the writter and his wordprocessor... not really a
> >  valid one now is it ?? I mean the word processer has no ability to write
> >  the book for you, where as the ETD can certainly take over the entire
> >  process... if you let it.
> 
> I don't understand how an ETD could take over the entire process, can you
> please elaborate?

Hmm.. dont really know what to say to this.. seems obvious enough.. You can
turn on the machine and tune the piano exactly as the machine tells you to.
The only thing you do is turn the pins. Course if you are refering to
turning and setting the pins.. well the ETD cant do this (grin at least not
yet)
> >
> >  Which brings us to the only other hard fact we seem to know about all this.
> >  Namely that whatever benifits / detrimants the ETD has are entirely (or at
> >  least to a very large degree) the result of how the ETD is used.
> 
> Absolutely, just as with any tool in your tool kit.  Isn't there a right way
> and a wrong way for anything?  Why would you not allow a better tool just
> because someone might misuse it?
> >

By no means would I sound off for dissallowing these tools. Quite the
opposite. That isnt the same as saying we should not constantly be on the
lookout for pitfalls in the use of such tools, and when becomeing aware of
any such pitfalls, taking appropriate precautions in the use of these.

> >  As far as I can see... the rest is pretty much speculation, hunchy,
> >  hypothetical... unsubtantiated.
> 
> So lets substantiate as much as we can before making judgement.

I couldnt aggree more, which really was the whole point of my posting.
There are a lot of claims and opinions about the use of ETD's much of them
very subjective in nature and rooted in our own prejudice. Beyond the
single fact, and assumed correctness of the single statistic I mention
above.. there is only speculation.

Be there any doubt, I am a proponent of the use of ETD's for all piano
work, but I think its very important indeed to keep a watchfull eye on how
they affect us in the expedition of that work.
> >
> >  my view
> >
> >
> 
> David Koelzer
> Associate Member
> DFW

-- 
Richard Brekne
Associate PTG, N.P.T.F.
Bergen, Norway