Michel Lachance wrote: > > > Concerning ETD devices, there are so many different techologies available > that one cannot say "you've heard one, you've heard them all!". Mentionning > for example that ETD users have to manually tweak the treble shows that you > may not know exactly how RCT program works and, most of all, may not have > heard how a RCT tuning sounds in real life. With the program, you can > custom tweak your curve (any part it actually) up to an outrageous rate if > you want. If you only have a theoratical idea of RCT and put it in the same > basket as some early ETD's, I think you don't shoot the right target. I didnt say treble.. but if I had to say anything I would say Bass.. and as far as tweaking by experienced users.. I just am reporting what I have read on this list, and what makes sense about inharmonicity in general. The only way an ETD can know about the inharmonicity problems with each and every string is to first sample each and every string. Now we all know that in spite of this.. RCT and SAT do an extremely good job of it. But there is no sampling of 5 or 6 notes can result in a curve that solves every problem for every scale on every piano.. In fact most pianos will require the use of the ear for at least a few notes. > > > >Dont get me wrong.. I like ETD's.. but for what they can teach me.. not for > >their ability to decide what a good tuning is or isnt. In the end a good > >tuning > >is the result of a good portion of skill, knowledge and subjectivity... > >with > >accent on the last. Puters dont have that last ability and no amount of > >programing is going to teach them that. > > Good ETD devices are not the opposition of aural tuning. When you record > you own aural tuning on RCT for example, you DO an aural tuning with the > machine. You can even do it with a vacuum cleaner running next to you! I never said that ETD devices are in opposition to aural tunings. And I am not sure what kind of an aural tuning you are talking about with a vacume cleaner.. But I'd like to see a tuner useing just his ears and sense for beats hear through a vacume tuner. If you are refereing to direct partial referencing.. that is not really quite the same as an aural tuning. close... perhaps.. but no cigar.. In any case the jist of my argumentation here is to simply point out that ETD can and often enough are used as a pillow instead of a tool,, and thats understandable enough. > > > >A little Korg auto tuner works just as well for a pitch raise.. if you are > >able > >to figure out in your head how much to raise.. which is no problem. > > I STRONGLY disagree here. If you would pitch raise a piano with a simple > ETD the way RCT does, here is what you would do: Since the purpose of a pitch raise is simply to put the piano at the proper tension... (another thread going on this).. I fail to see the earth shaking advantages gained by any particular tool or method, as long as whatever you as a tuner use.. you do well. I cannot do a good pitch raise in 10 minutes.. I need more like 20.. This has nothing to do with ETD's, my ears, or any such thing. It has strictly to do with my arm. I simply cannot move that fast without getting all kinds of pains in my back. Your description below (not included for space considerations) is interesting enough as far as it goes... but I have often enough achieved a 16 cent pitch raise with my ear with similiar results.. its just a matter of knowing how far to overstretch.. and honestly.. you dont need a puter to tell you that. Again.. it just takes the thinking out of the game. Now YOU may think anyways.. and if you do you can probably learn even MORE with an ETD.. But not everyone does. It has been noted by many that inexperienced tuners starting out with ETD's learn less about tuning in general then either strictly aural tuners or tuners who started out aurally. There was a thread not long ago what talked about this in relation to RPT testing. Micheal... just because there are many things "right" about ETD's doesnt mean that each of them in their own way dont also have pitfalls. I see no point in looking only at the good that these do while ignoring some of the potential and real problems they create. And as I said before, the whole idea of logrithmically calculated theoretically correct tuning curves superimposed on an everything but perfect system of harmonics is not a resolved issue. That is a discussion in its own right and as with most everything else there are plenty of Yings and Yangs on both sides. Like I said.. dont misunderstand me.. I like ETD's... its just that I am not a blind believer. > > > This is lots of talking and sounds pretty complicated. Just forget all what > I said and read this: > > > Please, don't believe me. Find someone who has RCT, sit with him at a badly > out of tune piano and find out by yourself. With all my regrets, this is > the only way you may have a fair opinion of RCT. I do have an RCT... use it quite a bit... need more experience before I can or cannot concur with your exhaltations of its capabilities, and like every tool figure I need time to get really really good at using it. Golly guy... you'd think I was attacking RCT or something.. I am not.. quite the oposite.. But like I said..Ying and Yang. > > > To come back with the initial issue. I can understand people may like > tuning so much that they may be disapointed, when pitch raising, of having > the job done on right on the first pass. For me, my time is valuable and if > I can save 15 to 20 minutes on pre-tunings, I find really worth spending a > bit more for a good ETD device. For me, Precision Strobe Tuner does not > fall that category. Er.. the initial issue was a question posed in general about how good a Precision Strobe Tuner is.. The fellow made no references to pitch raise. I simply said it depended on what he wanted to use it for.. and I still do. > > > Regards, > > Michel Lachance > All in good spirits, and in the persuit of furthering my own knowledge... grin... Richard Brekne I.C.P.T.G. N.P.T.F. Associate, PTG Bergen, Norway
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