kam544@flash.net wrote: > Dear Richard, List, > > Thank you for your response and additional comments. > > >...No I have not presented any evidence to support the standing definition > >of a > >piano tuner. If you wish to challange this point... > > By your own admission, Richard, if you can't even support what you are > trying to present, what would there be to challenge other than what I've > already posted? Sheeessh.... what is this ,...."lets see how clever we can be at twisting others words hour" ??? I in no way admited to not being able to support my position. I simply stated that I did not offer any support. I said that, if you want to know... because offering such support for something that is so blantantly obvious seemed a bit .... well hell... I was under the impression I was communicating with adults you see and I didnt think I needed to be as specific about every little thing as I would be with your average 7 year old... grin. > So this may only be a matter of semantics, Well then Keith, either you do not see clearly the ramifications of such a standpoint, and would quickly alter that if you did, or you are just plain wrong. Sorry bud... but whether you like it or whether you do not.. this is the case. Shheesshh... like I am sure that if this was a disscussion of about Doctors... and you were asked to accept whether some sailor out in the middle of the pacific who had to perform an appendicitus using a radio link to a real doctor telling him what to do... was a doctor or not... heckkkk he got the appendicitus done... that must make him a doctor.... Lets get passed third grade philosophical thinking shall we ?? > I feel certain you are taking exception to something else other than what > you state. > er.... what for example??? > > >...The fact that one can turn on a machine, and make the dials stop... > >even go so far as to be proficient at setting pins in no way whatsoever is a > >guarantee that the individual understands jack didly about what a piano tuning > >is. > It, likewise, is no guarantee that they don't. And by your own admission > in another post today to Newton, "Of course as in all things... there are > exceptions to the rule." You reverse the issue unjustifiably... it is you who imply that a person can qualify as a tuner even tho all they can do is turn on the machine and follow directions. In fact you state so directly. (se quote below) And you use the above kind of logic to support that possibilty... and THEN you turn around and accuse me of not offering support for my viewpoints.. absolutely amazing .... grin.. Again Keith... you have this knack of taking things out of context... of course there are exceptions to any rule... but we are not dealing with a rule in this issue... we are dealing with a definition... one that to a much larger degree then you seem willing to understand is given by the nature of human endeavor itself. > > (Re: Pin Torque minimum standard?) > > >Any future testing proceedure simply has to establish that a prospective > >tuner does indeed understand and has a working knowledge tuning. > > Here's where you reveal that you are indeed taking exception to something > else. That is, testing the *degree* of understanding and working knowledge > by agreed upon standards of how well that tuning is done. Now that is > another matter, and one I was never addressing. > > >This may sound arrogant to some I suppose... but it really quite simple. The > >skill of setting pins in no way encompases more then a small part of the scope > >of what a piano tuner has to be able to do and know. > >Richard Brekne > > Once again, I will point out for your consideration, if one uses the words > piano technician instead of piano tuner, what you say would be far more > digestible. And once again I would point out that the scope of piano technician is a far larger field and would require insight into many many things that have no direct relationship to tuning at all. Further this is even more vague as it is by no means certain that one must by definition include piano tuning in a definition of piano technician. The scope of a piano tuners job is greater then being able to turn on a machine Keith. He / she has to be able to tune the piano without the machine.... Otherwise it is not the person who is tuning.. it is the machine that "tunes", or more correctly stated.. it is the guy who programmed the computer who tunes. You might just as well hook up a mechanical device to the Sat or RCT. > > > A possible example for considered clarification: > > Using the concept of a fry cook and a chef, that is, it is not likely a fry > cook could perform the duties of a chef, but nonetheless *is* preparing > food everyday. On the other hand, it is quite likely a chef could easily > perform the duties of a fry cook, but essentially does much more than that. > > Therefore, even though there is a difference is the outcome of the final > product, depending on who is consuming, there is no difference in the fact > that food is being prepared for consumption. Yes Keith... but it is not the product we are concerned with in defining who is a tuner or who is a cook. Just as in the case of a tuner... A cook is someone who knows how to cook... not some jack ass who has his boss breathing over his shoulder telling him exactly what each and every move should be because he cant put two thoughts together himself. > > > Sincerely, > > Keith McGavern > Registered Piano Technician > Oklahoma Chapter 731 > Piano Technicians Guild > USA Keith... you seem to have this idea that humans dont have to think, dont have to even able to think, can be total mindless idiots and still qualify as technicians, scholars, doctors, cooks, what have you. Now I know you didnt use the words scholars or doctors youself but that is the direct result of the statement " but the only qualifications I see necessary to call one's self a piano tuner is to be able to do just this, bring a piano into tune and set the tuning pins while doing so, regardless of the process." You could just as well insert any kind of work into this line... and doing so would quickly reveal how ridiculous this line of thinking is. Equally sincerely... and I hope you understand with a glint of humour and freindliness in my eye. -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. Bergen, Norway mailto:Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no
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