pianotech-digest V1997 #2076 Re: Weber Gooey Mess

Patrick J. Lynch patsandy@mindspring.com
Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:20:14 -0400














At 09:15 AM 10/21/99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>pianotech-digest     Thursday, October 21 1999     Volume 1997 : Number 2076
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:45:42 -0400
>From: Greg Newell <gnewell@netzero.net>
>Subject: Re: Plastic (old) elbow dilemma
>
>Susan,
>    I've always adjusted lost motion at the top of the wire not the bottom, but
>no it's not welded or anything. I can't think that the durability of the
>plastic is compromised at all. Plastics are heated and cooled for reshaping all
>the time. I give a lifetime guarantee on the repair. Mine or theirs , whichever
>comes first. I've not noticed toxic fumes except those couple times when I was
>preoccupied and got the wire cherry red. By that time if I touched the plastic
>I've pretty much wasted the elbow anyway. Give it a shot!
>
>Greg Newell
>
>Susan Kline wrote:
>
>> At 11:49 PM 10/19/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Clyde,
>> >    You've simply got to try this. Heat the wire with your propane torch
>> and simply
>> >push the new elbow on. It's really that simple. I'm guessing it's kinda
>> like they
>> >put the screw driver blade into its' handle. Anyway it will shorten your
>> time on
>> >this job dramatically!!!
>> >    Greg Newell
>>
>> Can you still adjust the lost motion after they are in, or are they fixed
>> in place?
>> And how does the heat affect the durability of the plastic? And do you have
>> to
>> smell the hot plastic as you do it?
>>
>> Susan
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:48:10 EDT
>From: Pianotoone@AOL.COM
>Subject: Re: Plastic (old) elbow dilemma
>
>I can attach a plastic elbow in about twenty seconds including, heating a 
>cooling.  No way can you rotate one on in that time.  Plus the heating system 
>is much easier
>
>Just my 4 cents (inflation you know) worth
>
>Dick Day
>Marshall, MI
>
>In a message dated 10/20/99 2:46:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>jpage@capecod.net writes:
>
><< Heat the wire with a propane torch until you see it turn color just a
> little -
> certainly not red!  Push it in the elbow and hold it straight until the wire
> cools enough to be solid (10 seconds or so).  Try it you'll like it.  I cut
> the
> old elbows off with a pair of wire cutters, cutting it lengthwise.  By now
> most
> elbows are so brittle that they fall off easily.
> >
> >dave
> 
> It seems to me; for the time it takes to heat the wire,
> insert it and wait till it cools; you could just rotate one on.
> 
> Vise-Grips on the wire makes quick work of it, no fumes,
> no fire hazard, no fuel cost.
> 
> Besides, if you have a willing helper; while they replace the 
> elbows, you could be tightening action screws.
>  >>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:23:36 -0700
>From: rchayden1@juno.com
>Subject: Re: Plastic elbow dilemma SOLVED!
>
>Plastic Elbows?  And not enough cash?
>
>Sell them a few extra elbows, teach them how to repair them, tune it and
>of course charge accordingly.  At least you're leaving them a recourse.
>
>I've taught many to do this, departed with very grateful clients, and
>left no monkey on my back.  Return visits proved that they seldom
>regulated them correctly, but at least they had 'function' and the kids
>could keep practicing.
>
>Return visits also proved that not many more broke.
>
>And, how about the set of original elbows, half of which are still strong
>and will not come off without endangering the wooden whippen walls.  
>
>Roger Hayden, RPT
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:00:34 -0400
>From: Greg Newell <gnewell@netzero.net>
>Subject: Re: Plastic (old) elbow dilemma
>
>Dick,
>    No offense, but I can't imagine what takes you so long. I'm figuring
about 5
>second each.
>
>Greg Newell
>
>Pianotoone@AOL.COM wrote:
>
>> I can attach a plastic elbow in about twenty seconds including, heating a
>> cooling.  No way can you rotate one on in that time.  Plus the heating system
>> is much easier
>>
>> Just my 4 cents (inflation you know) worth
>>
>> Dick Day
>> Marshall, MI
>>
>> In a message dated 10/20/99 2:46:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> jpage@capecod.net writes:
>>
>> << Heat the wire with a propane torch until you see it turn color just a
>>  little -
>>  certainly not red!  Push it in the elbow and hold it straight until the wire
>>  cools enough to be solid (10 seconds or so).  Try it you'll like it.  I cut
>>  the
>>  old elbows off with a pair of wire cutters, cutting it lengthwise.  By now
>>  most
>>  elbows are so brittle that they fall off easily.
>>  >
>>  >dave
>>
>>  It seems to me; for the time it takes to heat the wire,
>>  insert it and wait till it cools; you could just rotate one on.
>>
>>  Vise-Grips on the wire makes quick work of it, no fumes,
>>  no fire hazard, no fuel cost.
>>
>>  Besides, if you have a willing helper; while they replace the
>>  elbows, you could be tightening action screws.
>>   >>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:02:23 -0400
>From: Ken Jankura <kenrpt@mail.cvn.net>
>Subject: Re: Plastic (old) elbow dilemma
>
>I made a jig out of wood scraps and CA glue one morning in 5 minutes that
>lasted half an elbow job. The addition of a little more CA glue helped it
>last the other half of that job and a few others after. It chucks in a
>variable speed drill and speeds up the screw-on process. Pianotek sells a
>very compact nifty tool of this order for under $10. I bought one.
>Ken Jankura
>
>
>At 02:40 PM 10/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>At 11:17 AM 10/20/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>>>Clyde:
>>>
>>>Heat the wire with a propane torch until you see it turn color just a
>>little -
>>certainly not red!  Push it in the elbow and hold it straight until the wire
>>cools enough to be solid (10 seconds or so).  Try it you'll like it.  I cut
>>the
>>old elbows off with a pair of wire cutters, cutting it lengthwise.  By now
>>most
>>elbows are so brittle that they fall off easily.
>>>
>>>dave
>>
>>It seems to me; for the time it takes to heat the wire,
>>insert it and wait till it cools; you could just rotate one on.
>>
>>Vise-Grips on the wire makes quick work of it, no fumes,
>>no fire hazard, no fuel cost.
>>
>>Besides, if you have a willing helper; while they replace the 
>>elbows, you could be tightening action screws.
>>
>>Menial tasks should be delegated to speed up the job.
>>
>>Now, if I could just get one of my kids to mow the lawn . . . 
>>Jon Page,  Harwich Port,  Cape Cod,  Mass.  mailto:jpage@capecod.net
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:14:14 -0500
>From: Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net>
>Subject: Jig & Yamaha Scale Help
>
>List,
>
>    Would anyone happen to know the PT Journal
>issue where Bill Spurlock describes how to
>build his Grand Damper Lever Setting Jig? I'm
>just trying to save some time wading through
>past issues.
>    Also, would anyone happen to have the plain
>wire scale for the Yamaha G3E Series grands,
>#1413173 (1971 according to Pierce).
>    Some "thoughtful" students have removed all
>portions of several broken strings on these
>and I hate having to let down tension to measure
>one next to it. On these models, the number is
>not on the plate. I'm assuming it would be
>metric.
>    It would save me a lot of time, so thanks for
>any help anyone can give me.
>______________________________________
>mailto:atodd@uh.edu - Work
>
>mailto:avery@ev1.net - Home
>
>Avery Todd, RPT
>Moores School of Music
>University of Houston
>713-743-3226
>Houston, TX 77204-4201
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:19:23 EDT
>From: JIMRPT@AOL.COM
>Subject: Re: Jig & Yamaha Scale Help
>
>Avery the scale for that vintage Yamahas is on the bridge.............
>Jim Bryant (FL)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:20:03 -0600
>From: "Robert Moffatt" <moffattr@cadvision.com>
>Subject: Re: Jig & Yamaha Scale Help
>
>Avery,
>
>The scale for all Yamaha grands can be found on the bridge.
>
>Bob
>- ----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net>
>To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>Cc: <caut@ptg.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 4:14 PM
>Subject: Jig & Yamaha Scale Help
>
>
>> List,
>> 
>>     Would anyone happen to know the PT Journal
>> issue where Bill Spurlock describes how to
>> build his Grand Damper Lever Setting Jig? I'm
>> just trying to save some time wading through
>> past issues.
>>     Also, would anyone happen to have the plain
>> wire scale for the Yamaha G3E Series grands,
>> #1413173 (1971 according to Pierce).
>>     Some "thoughtful" students have removed all
>> portions of several broken strings on these
>> and I hate having to let down tension to measure
>> one next to it. On these models, the number is
>> not on the plate. I'm assuming it would be
>> metric.
>>     It would save me a lot of time, so thanks for
>> any help anyone can give me.
>> ______________________________________
>> mailto:atodd@uh.edu - Work
>> 
>> mailto:avery@ev1.net - Home
>> 
>> Avery Todd, RPT
>> Moores School of Music
>> University of Houston
>> 713-743-3226
>> Houston, TX 77204-4201
>> 
>> 
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:42:32 -0600
>From: "Joe & Penny Goss" <imatunr@primenet.com>
>Subject: Weber Gooey mess   #3800
>
>Hi all,
>Working on an old Weber the other day that had sluggish jacks.
>At first it seemed to be the only problem, but on closer examination I found
>that someone had covered the wippin cushions with a very thick coating of
>graphite.
>The coating was so thick with some type of grease that the capstans had a
>coat of the stuff on them as well.
>This resulted in the capstan clinging to the wippin cushion making the
>action very sluggish.
>Is there anyone that might know what the carrier for the graphite might have
>been?
>And also what one might use to wash out the goo from the felt?
>Joe Goss
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:12:36 PDT
>From: "Ron Koval" <drwoodwind@hotmail.com>
>Subject: cheap-n-easy voltage control
>
>My search took me to the local "ma & pa" hardware store. (Ma threw pa out a 
>couple of years ago, but that's another tale)  As I was searching the used 
>tool shelf, (no kidding, I find all sorts of stuff that I have no clue what 
>it was made for!) I lifted my eyes to the wall display and saw the key piece 
>to complete my quest:  A lamp socket dimmer.  This wonderful little gizmo 
>screws into any lamp and with a twist of the dial on the side, makes any 
>lamp into a dimmer lamp.
>
>So, you ask, how will this help with my hammer-flaming soldering iron, or my 
>felt-cloud-creating dremmel tool?
>
>Just down the aisle I found two adapters to complete the quest. Male socket 
>to female plug, and female socket to male plug. (stop it, I'm blushing)  
>Screw them all together, and Frankenstien is created!  Inserted between 
>extension cord and tool, one light-weight, cheap, easy to create in-line 
>voltage controller.
>
>So, no more blackened hammers for dinner, and I can finally slow down that 
>wild dremmel tool.
>
>'g'night all
>
>Ron Koval
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:27:32 EDT
>From: JIMRPT@aol.com
>Subject: Back up!-- not really off topic
>
>et al;
> I had a call today from a prospective client about a quote that I made back 
>in 1996!
>Since the call was on my answering machine and his business hours were over 
>for the day by the time I got the call I can't call back until tomorrow.
> Wanting to be as knowledgable about the quote as I could be, I looked in my 
>old fashioned :-)  paper files and found......... nada. 
>Thinking "what the heck" I pulled down my old back up ZIP Drive disks and 
>started doing a universal search to see if by some miracle I had saved the 
>quote..........Zowee!! I found it on the third disk I searched.
>  Now, because I took the advice from someone several years ago to "back up 
>everything having to do with your business DUMMY", I can talk to my customer 
>from a basis of fact and figures rather than trying to remember what I said 
>back then.
> Want to be able to do the same? ""back up everything having to do with your 
>business ................"" :-) and I might add..... keep it!  
>Jim Bryant (FL)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:14:37 -0700 (MST)
>From: "Jim Coleman, Sr." <pianotoo@imap2.asu.edu>
>Subject: Laptops and Printers
>
>Greetings to all:
>
>I was very tempted to start using a laptop and HP340 to print invoices on
>the job. I finally decided to not do it. I print the invoices in my office
>for the day's schedule. It's much easier this way and it looks just as
>professional to just to hand a nice neat invoice to the client at the
>completion of the job. If there has been any added work done, that is
>added by pencil and totalled. It is also noted on my work sheet which I
>take back to the office at the end of the day and add to the computer. I
>use the PTMS (Piano Technician Management System) which I used to sell.
>I can take a sheet with all of my standard prices for services listed.
>If I need to do an estimate, it is rather simple to mark those items
>needed and total them for the client.
>
>I've noticed that when I do carry a laptop on the job, I have added
>more weight to my kit. This shows up in ankle joints, knee joints, wrists,
>and back. I like to carry into the job just the bare necessities for tuning 
>and minor regulation. All of this fits into a neat 3.5" thick attache case.
>If more equipment is needed, I go to the car for an additional kit.
>
>Jim Coleman, Sr.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:49:14 -0700 (MST)
>From: "Jim Coleman, Sr." <pianotoo@imap2.asu.edu>
>Subject: Re: tuning lecture
>
>Hi Dave:
>
>An oboe when playing with other instruments can tune to the others in
>the ensemble, so that the M3ds are in tune. The piano is fixed to whatever
>temperament you use, and it cannot bend the tones to fit with the other
>instruments. Playing in just intonation is the goal in instrumental groups.
>This is not possible with pianos. They are fixed a certain way by the
>tuner.
>
>Jim Coleman, Sr.
>
>On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 DGPEAKE@AOL.COM wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 10/18/99 10:22:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>> drwoodwind@hotmail.com writes:
>> 
>> << 
>>  A piano is a fixed-pitch instrument.  Temperaments help it sound as good as 
>>  it can, for different keys.
>>   >>
>> 
>> How can a piano be fixed-pitched?  Like an oboe?
>> 
>> Dave Peake, RPT
>> Portland Chapter
>> Oregon City, OR
>> 
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:25:52 -0400
>From: Wallace Wilson <wilson53@MARSHALL.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Laptops & printers
>
>Paul:
>        Yours is a thoughtful and creative answer re laptops. I had been
>considering getting a Palm Pilot for names, addresses, ph # & svc record
>info.  However, the laptop can do so much more, even if I continue to
>tune aurally and use the SAT for those abysmal situations! How about
>some feedback from those of you who've tried one way or the other -- the
>ups & downs of each method?  Much appreciation for those who will share
>their experiences!
>
>Wally Wilson, RPT
>West Virginia
>Columbus, OH Chapter
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:27:54 -0400
>From: Wallace Wilson <wilson53@MARSHALL.EDU>
>Subject: piano legs
>
>Our symphony desires to change its S&S D's dinky little casters for the
>nice German casters that roll so much more easily.  This requires a
>change in piano legs so that the pianist won't be playing up under
>his/her chin.  There appears to be 2 ways to accomplish this:  either
>cut down the existing legs by 1/2 the difference in diameters between
>the old & new casters; or buy/make new legs.  The cost of 3 S&S "short
>legs" is a bit high.  Anybody out there make the various S&S legs, or
>know of anybody who does?  I might wind up doing it myself, but it is a
>bit of time for one who doesn't do that sort of thing every week.  Any
>takers?  or recommendations?
>
>- ---Wally Wilson, RPT
>   Ravenswood, WV
>   Columbus, OH Chapter
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:31:56 -0400
>From: Wallace Wilson <wilson53@MARSHALL.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Laptops & printers
>
>Paul:
>	Yours is a thoughtful and creative answer re laptops. I had been
>considering getting a Palm Pilot for names, addresses, ph # & svc record
>info.  However, the laptop can do so much more, even if I continue to
>tune aurally and use the SAT for those abysmal situations! How about
>some feedback from those of you who've tried one way or the other -- the
>ups & downs of each method?  Much appreciation for those who will share
>their experiences!
>
>Wally Wilson, RPT
>West Virginia
>Columbus, OH Chapter 
>
>paulmcrpt@juno.com wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:36:11 -0500 "David M. Porritt"
>> <dporritt@swbell.net> writes:
>> >List:
>> >
>>  does anyone else carry a
>> >printer with them?  I have a Canon BJC-50
>> 
>> yes.  I carry a HP Deskjet 340 and do the same as you mentioned.  I love
>> it and the customers enjoy the show.  It starts conversations that lead
>> to other services that I can offer such as a list of local teachers,
>> prices of new pianos, when was the last time you had such-and-so done on
>> your piano, rescaling, and analysis of inharmonicity or what is an ETD.
>> I don't know how we ever worked with paper :-)
>> 
>> Paul McMillin, RPT
>> Carlisle, PA
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:28:14 -0500
>From: Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net>
>Subject: Re: Jig & Yamaha Scale Help
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>    I _did_ look there and on the plate. If they are, they're so faint that
>I just didn't see them. Guess I'll try a brush and see if they're under
>the dust. :-)
>
>Avery
>
>At 07:19 PM 10/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>Avery the scale for that vintage Yamahas is on the bridge.............
>>Jim Bryant (FL)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:43:17 EDT
>From: ANRPiano@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Plastic elbow dilemma SOLVED!
>
>In a message dated 10/20/99 5:32:34 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>rchayden1@juno.com writes:
>
><< And, how about the set of original elbows, half of which are still strong
> and will not come off without endangering the wooden whippen walls.  
> 
> Roger Hayden, RPT
>  >>
>Leave them alone.  Who wants to pull one of these actions just to fix a 
>broken wip flange which you yourself broke?
>
>Leave sufficient elbows with the customer and educate them as you said. 
>
>Andrew Remillard
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:39:05 -0700
>From: "Matthew J. Todd" <pianotech88@juno.com>
>Subject: Broken Strings
>
>>* Matthew,
>>It's having the problem because it's not a Steinway?! Ok then, if
>strings
>>don't break on Steinways, who's sneaking in and cutting these "broken"
>>strings I sometimes replace on Steinway grands (yes, I am occasionally
>>allowed to touch one)?
>
>If you replace 50+ strings in two years on one Steinway grand, let me
>know.  Obviously I would not be complaining if only several strings broke
>a year.  My piano instructor has occasionally broken strings on his
>Steinway grands.
>
>Well, here is what I know about this piano.  It is a 5'8.5'' Mason and
>Hamlin grand.  It was bought brand new in '79 for $7,192.  Can the price
>of those piano's boom from $7,000 to nearly $35-40,000 in twenty years?
>
>I do have a dehumidifier installed under the piano.  I plan to get the
>complete system here shortly.
>
>Our church piano tech came about three weeks ago.  He reshaped the
>hammers, and then he voiced them.  What else could I do??  Will
>regulating the action every so often help??  What are my other options???
>
>
>Thanks!
>
>Matthew
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:06:27 -0600 (MDT)
>From: andy@antlers.Central.Sun.COM
>Subject: test1 from anterls
>
>lskjdslkdjskl
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:08:56 -0600 (MDT)
>From: "Andrew M. Rudoff" <andy@rudoff.com>
>Subject: FAQ
>
>Long overdue for a FAQ posting...  probably time for me to update it
>a bit, but I'm posting it anyway for those who need a reminder how to
>subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>The searchable archives are off-line temporarily while I'm fixing a
>problem.  Should be back soon...
>
>- -andy
>
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>	instead. Send your posts to:
>
>		humor@ptg.org
>
>	To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@ptg.org
>	containing only this line:
>
>		unsubscribe humor
>
>	This list is archived on the web at:
>	
>		http://www.ptg.org/archive/humor/
>
>
>                     TESTING THE LISTS
>
>PLEASE DO NOT POST TEST MESSAGES TO THE LISTS!  When you post a message
>that says "just testing" you are cluttering up hundreds of mailboxes and
>your message gets entered into the archives for that list.  Instead,
>send the line:
>
>	which
>
>to the address:
>
>	majordomo@ptg.org
>
>This line asks the server software to tell you which lists you are on.
>The messages take the same path as a posted message, so you end up testing
>that you can send mail to the server, and that it can send mail back to you.
>In addition, you get to see what lists the server thinks you're on, so that
>tells you if you have somehow been unsubscribed.  Best of all, you don't
>bother hundreds of people with a "testing" message.  The "which" command is
>handled automatically, so you can do this type of test as often as you like
>(i.e. every month, every day, every hour, whatever).
>
>
>     FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PTG MAILING LISTS
>
>1. What types of posts are allowed and disallowed on each list?
>
>	Anyone can post anything.  But each list does have its
>	intended purpose and everyone will be happiest if we all
>	try to stick to topics appropriate for each list.  Sending
>	a PTG political discussion to pianotech or a completely
>	non-PTG related message to ptg-l are guaranteed ways to
>	get flamed.
>
>	Please follow these guildlines when posting:
>
>	- Sign your real name to your messages (adding your location
>	  and place of employment is even better).
>
>	- Don't post large attachments or messages -- offer to send it
>	  to people or make it available on the web instead.
>
>	- Don't "cross-post" your message to multiple mailing lists.
>	  Choose the one forum best suited for your topic instead.
>
>2. Why aren't the lists moderated?
>
>	The lists are meant to be open forums.  Moderating these lists
>	would be a big job and it would be tricky to filter these lists
>	in a way that everyone agrees is fair.  If enough interest arises,
>	we can create new, moderated lists in addition to the open lists
>	we have.
>
>3. How do I tell the list server to send me my own posts?
>
>	This list software, majordomo, always sends you copies of your
>	own posts (it is not configurable).
>
>4. How do I tell the list server to send me digests?
>
>	You must unsubscribe to the list and subscribe instead
>	to the "-digest" version of the list as explained earlier
>	in this document.  For example, subscribing to "pianotech"
>	will cause you to receive every post individually.  Subscribing
>	to "pianotech-digest" will cause you to receive collections
>	of posts periodically.
>
>5. I'm going out of town, how do I suspend delivery?
>
>	You must unsubscribe and re-subscribe when you return.
>
>6. Is there a way to search the on-line archives?
>
>	Not yet, but that is in the works.  In the mean time, there is
>	an excellent searchable archive of the pianotech list maintained
>	by David Parkhurst at:
>
>		http://www.webcom.com/wind/ptsearch.html
>
>7. Why don't the on-line archives contain old messages?
>
>	We're currently only archiving those messages sent after the lists
>	moved to the PTG server.  We're in the process of updating the
>	archives to contain old messages.
>
>8. Why did my message take so long to be sent out on the list?
>
>	Several things could cause delays.  The two most likely delays are:
>
>		- some machine or network is temporarily down
>		- you message required approval by the list manager
>
>	Messages require approval by the list manager if they contain
>	words like "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" at the top.  This avoids
>	the very common annoyance of someone sending these requests to
>	the list instead of to majordomo@ptg.org.  If the list manager
>	determines the message should really go out on the list, it is
>	approved.
>
>	If you think your message has been dropped or delayed an unusual
>	amount of time, DON'T SEND MORE MAIL OUT TO THE LIST!  This just
>	causes a wave of "is the list working?" messages.  Be patient!
>	You can always send the word "help" to majordomo@ptg.org to see
>	if the server is responding, or contact admin@ptg.org for more
>	detailed status.
>
>9. Who do I contact for list administrative issues?
>
>	admin@ptg.org
>
>- -------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of pianotech-digest V1997 #2076
>***********************************
>
>



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