Bill Bremmer RPT wrote: <<Remember also that these composers did not use the modern piano as we know it. They used much more unstable instruments. The accuracy of both temperament and octaves could not compare to what we require in modern piano tuning today.>> In a message dated 12/13/99 5:43:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, birketts@wright.aps.uoguelph.ca (Stephen Birkett) writes: << (supporting comments snipped for brevity) The 1814 Streicher in the Wuettembergergisches Landesmuseum stays perfectly in tune year in and year out, with very little effort required. >> Thank you for the very informed and interesting input. Since I have no contact at all with the kind of pianos you build professionally, my notions have been based on hearsay. I'm at least willing to believe that tuners for the great composers did earnest and competent work. I would also expect that some or maybe even all of them did some or even all of their own tuning (à la Chick Corea and I've also seen Keith Jarrett and Lyle Mays do it too). It is curious, the fact that there is so little documentation of what was actually done. One of the classes of temperaments that somehow gets ignored in these discussions is the Modified Meantone Temperament (MMT). It is not just someone "watering down" (so to speak) a Meantone Temperament (MT). It is a specific method of dividing the so-called "Wolf" 5th that occurs in all MT's. In its earliest forms, it seeks to "remedy" the perceived unmusical quality of the 1/4 Syntonic Comma MT "wolf" which is some 40 cents wide by dividing that dissonance between two 5ths rather than just one. But this idea can be carried further and applied to any MT. It was another approach and an alternative to the Well-Tempered Tuning (WT) concept. The basic difference is that a WT has a "MT" side (mostly the white keys) and a "Pythagorean" side (mostly the black keys). The black key side of the WT has all or mostly pure 5ths and by consequence wide 3rds. The MMT has all tempered 5ths except for the 5ths which are the result of the divided "Wolf". Those are slightly wide. That mostly black key side of the temperament also has wide 3rds Andreas Werkmeister's Rules for WT expressly prohibit a wide 5th, believing it to be counterproductive. But some people had other ideas about that so I know that especially in 18th Century France, the MMT was commonly used. I guess you could think of the WT as the "German Solution" and the MMT as the French one. People had their alliances, preconceived opinions and minority interests, just as they do today, doubtlessly. But still, the way the two different kinds of temperament sound on any given music is fairly similar. The differences are very subtle. The very wise and rather obvious way to make a choice of temperament is to determine the era and country from which the music came. But choosing one temperament which will well express music of different kinds from different eras need not be a dilemma or impossible choice to make. I have felt for over a decade that the choice of ET as the only one appropriate for *anything* goes much further than it has to in serving all kinds of music. I believe that while ET will remain a catch all standard, the better technicians will begin to understand the power and versatility of the Cycle of 5ths Based Temperaments (C5BT), (a catch all term, if I may for anything and everything which is not ET but which is used in common practice). One of the more outspoken ones who is already having an impact on the recording industry is a frequent contributor to this List. In fact, he started this thread. There need not be one rigid standard that applies to all situations. That only tends to limit the possibilities. The challenge is to find how much positive difference can be made while not creating any perceived adversity. I have looked long and hard for that solution and practice it daily. Of course I have crossed the line more than just a few times. But I don't think you can know where that line is until you do cross it. Ed's work demonstrates the same kind of general direction. He cannot offend any recording artists or producers ears and continue. He must find that which works for him. This is something I believe is universal to our work. We all must find that which works well for us, personally. This is regardless of the area of Piano Technology in which we specialize or in which we may only occasionally practice. It is only expected that two different people in different cites with different circumstances would arrive at parallel solutions, not the same ones. The Equal Beating Victorian Temperament that I have developed comes from the MMT class of temperaments. In the process of dividing the "Wolf" further than was done in the 18th Century, my slightly wide 5ths became pure and the "Wolf" 5th ended up just barely tempered but sounding fairly pure. This MMT satisfied the Rules for WT, if only by the skin of it's teeth, so to speak. It has now been seven full years since I conceived it on a very poorly rebuilt Steinway B on which I did a pin driving and coil setting with CA treatment. The piano is still going strong and is used for the Symphony Chorus and Opera rehearsals. It has a terrific Steinway sound and a Teflon action. I can only imagine though, how good that piano might sound with a brand new stringing job with carefully made bass strings (with a new pinblock), new action, keys and some very expertly chosen, custom fitted and voiced hammers. There is always something to be made somehow better tomorrow, it seems to me. Food for thought. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin
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