Different Attitudes

[David ilvedson]

Worse than that is we have to read responses to his E-mail 
and end up finding out much more than we wanted to know.   
Do not respond!  Do not respond!  Ignore, Ignore, Ignore!

David Ilvedson, RPT

From:           	"Joe & Penny Goss" <imatunr@primenet.com>
To:             	<pianotech@ptg.org>
Subject:        	Re: Different Attitudes
Date sent:      	Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:30:31 -0600
Send reply to:  	pianotech@ptg.org

> Elian,
> I think that you sum up for me the total disgust that I feel when this type
> of baiting and negative comments are used on the list.
> As for myself, all of Bill Bremmer's posts are deleted and not read.
> Unfortunately they still appear in my deleted file.
> Joe Goss
> 
> 
> ----------
> > From: Elian Degen <degen@telcel.net.ve>
> > To: pianotech@ptg.org; Susan Kline <skline@proaxis.com>;
> lewjone@prodigy.net
> > Subject: RE: Different Attitudes
> > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:13 PM
> > 
> > Susan, Lew, and other interested
> > 
> > Since I discovered this list, about two years a go, it looked to me a
> > beautiful way of staying in touch between a group of people with the same
> > goals and interests, with a common profession.
> > This list has managed to bring together a lot of people which not
> > necessarily have the same experience and knowledge, but again, what is
> the
> > point of having a forum if everyone has the same level ?
> > I always considered that the idea of this kind of list is an interchange
> of
> > knowledge between all of us.
> > Now a day the list also has received members from all over the world.
> That
> > means we can also learn how things are being done in different places of
> the
> > world. And IMO that is a wonderful thing to know, I learnt about piano
> > factories in (Beijing) China, Climate and how affects pianos in Africa
> and
> > tropical islands. etc.
> > We have been in contact with very valuable and highly qualified
> technicians,
> > as with newcomers, and I think that if we keep open-minded we can always
> > learn something, from the others whatever their experience and
> instruction,
> > and suddenly someone comes along, and thinks, he is qualified to
> disqualify
> > other people just because they disagree with his ideas...!!!, I am sorry
> to
> > say that when someone does that never mind his studies or qualifications,
> it
> > shows not to be an intelligent person. More still. He managed to drive
> many
> > of our colleagues which I consider really valuable, nice, goodhearted,
> > thinking people out of the list.
> > Now I asked all the remaining people, Is it fair, that for just one
> > ill-mannered person we put an end to something that took so much time to
> > build ?. Should´t we find a way to drive this person out, and keep him
> out ?
> > 
> > Yesterday I sent an e-mail to Majordomo-Owner@ptg.org  and I was told
> they
> > were doing something about it.
> > 
> > Meanwhile, please, any of the affected parties, stay put, try any other
> > means, filter his e-mails, ignore him or simply delete his mails. I think
> it
> > is very important, just for the matter of principles to stick together.
> > 
> > I am sending a copy of this message to MPT . If any of you CAUT people
> see
> > it and consider it could have a place in CAUT list please reproduce it.
> It
> > could be a good Idea just to avoid this happening at CAUT also.
> > 
> > Next this was Andrew Rudoff´s answer:
> > 
> > Elian,
> > 
> > Thanks for your message.  We are aware of the problem and we are
> reviewing
> > the situation.
> > 
> > -andy
> > 
> > >From degen@telcel.net.ve Mon Apr 12 22:58 MDT 1999
> > >From: "Elian Degen" <degen@telcel.net.ve>
> > >To: <Majordomo-Owner@ptg.org>
> > >Subject: Problem-member !!!
> > >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:54:41 -0400
> > >
> > >I am writing to you this e-mail, to find out if you are aware of a =
> > >member of the ptg List who has been constantly insulting the other =
> > >members of the list and with his behavior has succeeded to get many =
> > >other members to cancel their subscription, there have been several =
> > >discussions in the list about this person, but nothing has been =
> > >accomplished to make him stop. The other piano list has banned him out,
> =
> > >but in PTG this is the second time, and is very sad to watch as other =
> > >members are leaving the list because of him. I would like to know if you
> =
> > >are aware of the situation, if not, I could send you the details, but I
> =
> > >would very much prefer if you could go in the list and make a poll, You
> =
> > >would get a lot of answers
> > >=20
> > >Thank you in advance=20
> > >
> > >Elian Degen
> > >
> > >Piano Tuner and Technician=20
> > >Caracas, Venezuela
> > >Tels. 58-2-7308547 Cel. 58-14-9222981
> > >e-mail degen@telcel.net.ve
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Mensaje original -----
> > De: Lew Jones <lewjone@prodigy.net>
> > Para: Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Enviado: Martes, 13 de Abril de 1999 03:12 p.m.
> > Asunto: Different Attitudes
> > 
> > 
> > > Susan Kline and others interested
> > >
> > > I am new to the List- just a couple of months.  I can already see where
> > > it would be, at times, difficult to keep ones cool.  However, to keep
> > > the learning process (and it goes both ways) in being please back off
> > > and look at those different attitudes as part of the scheme.  There are
> > > a goodly number of very talently technicians in our business and they
> > > are one of the very few sources of our learning process.  Thankfully,
> > > most of them are readily willing to teach those of us who are willing
> to
> > > listen.  I have been in the Piano Technicians Guild since the
> convention
> > > in Washington, D.C. in 1981.  The wealth of knowledge I have absorbed
> > > from the 'old heads' and friends is enormous.  Several of those
> talently
> > > endowed technicians are no longer with us, very much to our loss.  Some
> > > of those who are teaching and guiding us now have been around a long,
> > > long time and when they are gone their talent is going with them.  It
> is
> > > up to those of us willing to learn from them to encourage them to
> please
> > > continue to be available to us and pass along to us as much as we can
> > > absorb.
> > >
> > > Susan, you're not necessarily an 'old head', but you are a very
> talently
> > > technician, who is willing to impart your knowledge to us and we
> > > sincerely hope you will be around a long, long time!  Please don't let
> a
> > > couple of situations discourage you.  We need you and those like you.
> > >
> > > While I'm on my soap box, my granddaddy passed a bit of wisdom on to me
> > > before I enlisted in the US Navy in W.W.II .  He said that if one has
> to
> > > use profanity (regardless of category) to get ones point across, one
> > > doesn't have much to say.  He also said that if one can't say something
> > > nice to or about someone, one shouldn't say anything.
> > >
> > > So, Susan, and others who have been a bit 'torqued' recently, stay with
> > > us.  WE need you.  Thanks for listening.
> > >
> > > Lew Jones
> > >
> > >
> > 
> 


David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA
ilvey@jps.net