Different Attitudes

[Joe & Penny Goss]

Elian,
I think that you sum up for me the total disgust that I feel when this type
of baiting and negative comments are used on the list.
As for myself, all of Bill Bremmer's posts are deleted and not read.
Unfortunately they still appear in my deleted file.
Joe Goss


----------
> From: Elian Degen <degen@telcel.net.ve>
> To: pianotech@ptg.org; Susan Kline <skline@proaxis.com>;
lewjone@prodigy.net
> Subject: RE: Different Attitudes
> Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:13 PM
> 
> Susan, Lew, and other interested
> 
> Since I discovered this list, about two years a go, it looked to me a
> beautiful way of staying in touch between a group of people with the same
> goals and interests, with a common profession.
> This list has managed to bring together a lot of people which not
> necessarily have the same experience and knowledge, but again, what is
the
> point of having a forum if everyone has the same level ?
> I always considered that the idea of this kind of list is an interchange
of
> knowledge between all of us.
> Now a day the list also has received members from all over the world.
That
> means we can also learn how things are being done in different places of
the
> world. And IMO that is a wonderful thing to know, I learnt about piano
> factories in (Beijing) China, Climate and how affects pianos in Africa
and
> tropical islands. etc.
> We have been in contact with very valuable and highly qualified
technicians,
> as with newcomers, and I think that if we keep open-minded we can always
> learn something, from the others whatever their experience and
instruction,
> and suddenly someone comes along, and thinks, he is qualified to
disqualify
> other people just because they disagree with his ideas...!!!, I am sorry
to
> say that when someone does that never mind his studies or qualifications,
it
> shows not to be an intelligent person. More still. He managed to drive
many
> of our colleagues which I consider really valuable, nice, goodhearted,
> thinking people out of the list.
> Now I asked all the remaining people, Is it fair, that for just one
> ill-mannered person we put an end to something that took so much time to
> build ?. Should´t we find a way to drive this person out, and keep him
out ?
> 
> Yesterday I sent an e-mail to Majordomo-Owner@ptg.org  and I was told
they
> were doing something about it.
> 
> Meanwhile, please, any of the affected parties, stay put, try any other
> means, filter his e-mails, ignore him or simply delete his mails. I think
it
> is very important, just for the matter of principles to stick together.
> 
> I am sending a copy of this message to MPT . If any of you CAUT people
see
> it and consider it could have a place in CAUT list please reproduce it.
It
> could be a good Idea just to avoid this happening at CAUT also.
> 
> Next this was Andrew Rudoff´s answer:
> 
> Elian,
> 
> Thanks for your message.  We are aware of the problem and we are
reviewing
> the situation.
> 
> -andy
> 
> >From degen@telcel.net.ve Mon Apr 12 22:58 MDT 1999
> >From: "Elian Degen" <degen@telcel.net.ve>
> >To: <Majordomo-Owner@ptg.org>
> >Subject: Problem-member !!!
> >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:54:41 -0400
> >
> >I am writing to you this e-mail, to find out if you are aware of a =
> >member of the ptg List who has been constantly insulting the other =
> >members of the list and with his behavior has succeeded to get many =
> >other members to cancel their subscription, there have been several =
> >discussions in the list about this person, but nothing has been =
> >accomplished to make him stop. The other piano list has banned him out,
=
> >but in PTG this is the second time, and is very sad to watch as other =
> >members are leaving the list because of him. I would like to know if you
=
> >are aware of the situation, if not, I could send you the details, but I
=
> >would very much prefer if you could go in the list and make a poll, You
=
> >would get a lot of answers
> >=20
> >Thank you in advance=20
> >
> >Elian Degen
> >
> >Piano Tuner and Technician=20
> >Caracas, Venezuela
> >Tels. 58-2-7308547 Cel. 58-14-9222981
> >e-mail degen@telcel.net.ve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Mensaje original -----
> De: Lew Jones <lewjone@prodigy.net>
> Para: Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Enviado: Martes, 13 de Abril de 1999 03:12 p.m.
> Asunto: Different Attitudes
> 
> 
> > Susan Kline and others interested
> >
> > I am new to the List- just a couple of months.  I can already see where
> > it would be, at times, difficult to keep ones cool.  However, to keep
> > the learning process (and it goes both ways) in being please back off
> > and look at those different attitudes as part of the scheme.  There are
> > a goodly number of very talently technicians in our business and they
> > are one of the very few sources of our learning process.  Thankfully,
> > most of them are readily willing to teach those of us who are willing
to
> > listen.  I have been in the Piano Technicians Guild since the
convention
> > in Washington, D.C. in 1981.  The wealth of knowledge I have absorbed
> > from the 'old heads' and friends is enormous.  Several of those
talently
> > endowed technicians are no longer with us, very much to our loss.  Some
> > of those who are teaching and guiding us now have been around a long,
> > long time and when they are gone their talent is going with them.  It
is
> > up to those of us willing to learn from them to encourage them to
please
> > continue to be available to us and pass along to us as much as we can
> > absorb.
> >
> > Susan, you're not necessarily an 'old head', but you are a very
talently
> > technician, who is willing to impart your knowledge to us and we
> > sincerely hope you will be around a long, long time!  Please don't let
a
> > couple of situations discourage you.  We need you and those like you.
> >
> > While I'm on my soap box, my granddaddy passed a bit of wisdom on to me
> > before I enlisted in the US Navy in W.W.II .  He said that if one has
to
> > use profanity (regardless of category) to get ones point across, one
> > doesn't have much to say.  He also said that if one can't say something
> > nice to or about someone, one shouldn't say anything.
> >
> > So, Susan, and others who have been a bit 'torqued' recently, stay with
> > us.  WE need you.  Thanks for listening.
> >
> > Lew Jones
> >
> >
>