Also sprach JIMRPT: JIM> Alcohol in any form if abused is toxic, and so is milk, butter, vitamin A, B, > C, etc., etc. Common sense needs to be used when applying any liquid in an ..... Now, hold on thar, pardner-- I have no wish to get into a fractious debate, here, but it is clearly disingenuous to compare the toxicity of organic solvents to that of common foodstuffs. Vitamin A is indeed toxic in reasonably small quantities, but you are not likely to be exposed to them except if you eat large quantities of shark liver. It is fatuous to talk about "toxicity" in the same breath with milk and butter (or vitamin C for that matter). Toxicity is a direct interference in a metabolic process. It was not my intention to be alarmist, but most people are entirely unaware that methanol is readily transported into the blood via the skin and lungs. The Merck Index reads "poisoning may occur from ingestion, inhalation, or percutaneous absorption. Death from ingestion of as little as 30 ml has been reported "(thats 2 tablespoons to Americans). Chronic poisoning leads to visual impairment. Just for the list's information, from the US Federal Register, Volume 36, Number 105 (as quoted in the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics) the limits for exposure in air for a few common solvents (parts per million): Ethanol 1000 Acetone 1000 Gasoline 500 (Hexane, Heptane, Octane) Methylene Chloride 500 2-butanone (Methyl ethyl Ketone) (lacquer thinners) 200 Methanol 200 Toluene (contact cement solv) 200 Naptha 100 Turpentine 100 The thing about methanol is that it is an extremely small molecule--only 1 Carbon atom with 3 hydrogens and oxygen attached to another hydrogen. Because of this, its absorption thru skin is very rapid. I certainly never suggested not using it, but just that one should be aware of these things. Certainly if denatured alcohol (which is ethanol with a small proportion of poisons such as methanol, benzene, aniline, methyl violet added to it so that anyone foolish enough to drink it will get his protestant just desserts) is as effective for the purpose, it would be a better choice. The LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of subjects) for ethanol (in rats, of course, not people) is 13.7 g/kg. That means that someone like me would have to take 1.27 kg of absolute ethanol to kill me. That would be a several quarts of 80 proof liquor. That is a lot more than 2 tablespoons. JIM>We should not be using any liquid that is volital in an > enclosed - non ventilated space period....this includes fingernail polish and > fingernaill polish remover (laquer thinner w/oils) both of which are highly > toxic at the same levels as methanol. Not exactly. Nail polish/removers contain acetone and/or butanone, which are somewhat less toxic than methanol (acetone is 1/5 as toxic in air). JIM> Can anyone think of anything more toxic > than lye? Lye is an important component of most of the commercially available > soaps of all descriptions. Lye (sodium hydroxide) is not "toxic" in any normal sense of the word--it is caustic, and will directly damage tissues *as lye*, but in soap is is used in the saponification process to change fats into soap. It becomes part of the chemical structure of the soap, and is not present as hydroxide at all. Some of the most toxic chemicals known to humanity are used in the manufacture of vinyl (polyvinyl chloride, polyvinyl acetate), but vinyl plastics per se are not toxic. JIM> Gasoline is much more toxic than Methanol and you breath those vapors on an > everyday basis. No. Gasoline (in air) has a limit 2.5x greater for human exposure, and, as I mentioned, because the molecule is 6 to 12 times larger, it is not as readily absorbed through the skin. And I make every effort not to breathe gasoline vapours, which are much more obvious to the nose than methanol vapours. JIM> OK. If you spill any on yourself use that toxic lye, to wash off the toxic > alcohol, with plenty of water ladened with that toxic chlorine, along with > the toxic oxygen and the toxic hydrogen. > > Methanol highly toxic? of course........but so is milk... just use common > sense folk. > Just another view. > Jim Bryant (FL) Why do they call it "Common Sense"? It ain't all that common, or all that sensible. Tim "sayin' so don't make it so" Keenan H.B.Sc., M.Sc. Noteworthy Piano Service Terrace, BC.
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