Hi Ralph, I always get hooked when listening or reading of how other techs tune a temperament. I have tried so many different approaches that sometimes, I sit down on the bench after muting and I just don't know which procedure I'm going to use that day. In reading your procedure below, I wondered if you would save a little time by *first* getting your A3 - A4 octave as wide as you like, and *then* placing your E4 and D4 appropriately. I know... it's hard breaking habits but since Jim told me how smart you are, I just know that you will try something new. Try this for an exercise. Try tuning a circle of 5ths (and 4ths) with no checks to see how it comes out on the last one. Take care! Howard S. Rosen, RPT Boynton Beach, Florida ---------- > From: ralph m martin <rmartin30@juno.com> > To: pianotech@ptg.org > Subject: Re: Temperaments (the pianos', not the technicians') > Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 12:21 AM > > Hi Howard > > You are missing nothing at all. I set my A4, E4 and D4 making my 5th > pretty darn quiet. I then tune A3 so that the 5th from A3 to E4 is at the > same rate as the fifth from A4 to D4. If I > can live with the resultant octave width, I prodeed from E4 to B3 and > continue around the circle of 5ths and 4ths until I arrave at A4 once > again. If I detect any excess (to me) movement in the final 5th, I then > proceed until all intervals are the same (to me)then I check for gradual > increase in thirds from A3 upwards. Rarely do I change anything . The > thirds are usually fine. > > The resultant third may well be faster than theory calls for but I'm not > thinking of theory..I'm thinking of music and I can't, personally > tolerate fast(for me) 5ths. Mine are close to pure. I'm, no doubt, ending > up close to or right on Jim Coleman's theme...but not on all pianos!! If, > when tuning A3, the A3 to A4 octave is too wide for the piano then I > shrink D4 and E4 until I get the very best balance for that piano. After > this point , 4ths and 5ths are merely clones of what I have originally > set. > > Close to theoretical beat rates of thirds? Probably not! Does that bother > me? Not at all! I'm only interested in the music that follows. > > Hope I've answered your question, Howard. I tend to ramble in my old > age...and don't listen to that rascal Jim B. when he describes his vision > of me on the Scottish brae. I actually cut a fine figure up there .Only > the clenched teeth betray my dicomfort with the cold wind whipping up my > kilt. He's just jealous because he has learned that the scot's pipes have > one more drone than the Irish. The Irish only, generally use two. > > best regards > Ralph Martin > > On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:52:03 -0500 "Howard S. Rosen " <hsrosen@emi.net> > writes: > >Hi Ralph, > > > >You lost me on this post. When you say > > > >>I like very little movement in > >> my 5ths and this way I can control them. > > > >Do you mean your 5ths are near perfect (just)? If so, then > > > >>They my be faster than theory calls for > > > >They should be *slower* than theory calls for. What am I missing > >here??????? > > > >Sincerely, > >Howard S. Rosen, RPT > >Boynton Beach, Florida > > > > > > > >---------- > >> From: ralph m martin <rmartin30@juno.com> > >> To: pianotech@ptg.org > >> Subject: Re: Temperaments (the pianos', not the technicians') > >> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 2:07 PM > >> > >> Hi Mark > >> I'm one of those old duffs who started with 4ths and 5ths theme and > >just > >> this year, returned to it. The reason?...I like very little movement > >in > >> my 5ths and this way I can control them. I always check with 3rds > >after > >> and Rarely have to move anything. They my be faster than theory > >calls for > >> but they ascend properly. > >> > >> I know...you can't teach an old dog new tricks! > >> Ralph Martin > >> > >> On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:21:55 -0500 (EST) Mark Graham > ><magraham@bw.edu> > >> writes: > >> >I learned tuning at the Perkins School in Elyria, Ohio, in the > >70's. > >> >It > >> >was a unique place, an old YMCA full of pianos. There was a gym and > >a > >> >pool, and more dorm rooms that were ever needed. We learned to set > >> >temperaments by 4ths and 5ths. If you paid for the "concert tuning" > >> >course, you learned about 3rds. I don't recall 6ths being > >mentioned. > >> >Most > >> >of the good technicians from that school (and there are plenty on > >this > >> >list) ended up learning about the fine points of temperaments on > >their > >> >own. > >> > > >> >I lived in Elyria, but many of the students lived in the building. > >One > >> >day > >> >I was eating lunch with them in the big communal kitchen, and a > >woman > >> >named Sue went over to a diassembled upright in the hall and played > > > >> >some > >> >chords. I remember her exclaiming "Sweet!", and I remember all of > >us > >> >raising our heads and cocking an ear in that direction. She played > >> >some > >> >more, high, low, close, open, and it really was an uncommonly > >> >attractive > >> >sound, clear on some chords, complex on others. We all noticed it. > >> > > >> >Upon checking the temperament, it became clear that it wasn't > >perfect > >> >(ET > >> >being what we called perfect). Twenty years later, I realize that > >what > >> >we > >> >were hearing was a piano which a student had tuned in our > >> >approximation of > >> >ET, but which had slipped into a not-ET well temperament of some > >> >mongrel > >> >variety. We were so used to hearing one temperament, hour after > >hour, > >> >that > >> >a different temperament seemed like a doorway to different music. > >> > > >> >And that is how I regard temperaments now. I always attempt ET, > >> >because > >> >even for our Bach festival, that is what is specified. (We have an > >> >excellent harpsichordist who requests Valotti-Young at A 415 for > >her > >> >personal teaching harpsichord, but other than her, our very correct > > > >> >Bach > >> >experts here are completely unaccustomed to other temperaments.) At > > > >> >home, > >> >though, and on the pianos of some teachers who I know play almost > >> >exclusively Romantic repertoirs, I tune various temperaments, and > >> >savor > >> >the results like you would savor a fine meal. There are always > >lovely > >> >surprises in store, and sour chords happen, but only very, very > >> >rarely. > >> >It's amazing how broad a range our ears will accept. > >> > > >> >I do know that when I set ET on a piano using a temperament strip, > >> >where > >> >the piano is pretty out-of-tune, and then tune the unisons, when I > >> >check > >> >the temperament, it often no longer is ET. I suppose those of you > >who > >> >always do two-pass tunings would eliminate this "problem", but I > >find > >> >most > >> >people don't care, and the results are interesting and not at all > >> >offensive. > >> > > >> >When you're talking about temperaments, there are many paths to > >> >beauty. > >> >The older I get, the more I am willing to accept and appreciate any > >> >reasonable temperament that comes along. That applies to piano > >> >temperaments, and people temperaments. > >> > > >> >When I was working at the Perkins School painting walls, I once > >> >jokingly > >> >said that I was going to paint a mural of Moses receiving the Equal > >> >Temperament on Mt. Sinai. 20 years later, I know more than ever > >that > >> >that > >> >is only a joke. > >> > > >> >Mark Graham > >> >Baldwin-Wallace Conservatory of Music > >> >Berea, Ohio > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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